Strategy discussion
- Thread starter Rhye
- Start date
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
In general, building gold is more useful than building research (but when you don't have currency, you should try to use research to get to currency) because the science counter outweighs anything a single city could do. After you build research or gold, make sure you maximize the yield by readjusting your specialists (the AI LOOOOVES spies which are useless when you're ahead in science).
What I generally do is make as few military units as possible, and continuously build buildings in certain cities WHILE maintaining at least a 50-60% science, which means some cities will have to build gold until the next useful tech (e.g. banking, guilds, astronomy) comes in. Building research or gold after whiipping is also good because it'll allow your cities to recover in size and happiness.
What I generally do is make as few military units as possible, and continuously build buildings in certain cities WHILE maintaining at least a 50-60% science, which means some cities will have to build gold until the next useful tech (e.g. banking, guilds, astronomy) comes in. Building research or gold after whiipping is also good because it'll allow your cities to recover in size and happiness.
I finished 9 UHV on Monarchy, but I still trying to continually try to sharpen my skills. I actually micro the workers and citizens now. haha
okay how about this scenario. (I always play 3 000 BC unlocked).
So you start with whatever Civ, and you inherit a LARGE amount of Barbarians or other Civs troops. What to do? For example, with Spain, I got about 15 axemen. For me it says WAR, but could it be more judicious to disband the warband? Maybe I should take Rome, after its collapse. I wanted to take out France, but if I build 'pults, I will lag behind in science. I try to deal with France now so I dont have to fight a colonial war, but I'll lag behind in the Tech race vs England.
okay how about this scenario. (I always play 3 000 BC unlocked).
So you start with whatever Civ, and you inherit a LARGE amount of Barbarians or other Civs troops. What to do? For example, with Spain, I got about 15 axemen. For me it says WAR, but could it be more judicious to disband the warband? Maybe I should take Rome, after its collapse. I wanted to take out France, but if I build 'pults, I will lag behind in science. I try to deal with France now so I dont have to fight a colonial war, but I'll lag behind in the Tech race vs England.
AnotherPacifist
Deity
- Joined
- Sep 21, 2007
- Messages
- 4,878
War is always best for Spain. France, Netherlands and Italy should be assimilated ASAP. 2-3 pults will do the trick per city. You'll get much better science later on with more cities spaced apart. Don't be wimpy with sacrificing your axemen.
On the other hand, the plentiful axemen means that you don't need to build any troops for happiness and can whip your buildings quicker, i.e. more science. Of course you need vassalage to decrease the maintenance.
England is easily taken care of if you gun for military science and choke them with blockades.
On the other hand, the plentiful axemen means that you don't need to build any troops for happiness and can whip your buildings quicker, i.e. more science. Of course you need vassalage to decrease the maintenance.
England is easily taken care of if you gun for military science and choke them with blockades.
I've finished Spain.
I tried the peaceful way.. using settlers to control Carthage. I could have won if I did a colonial war: only attacked the (3) Euro lightly defended colonies. But I made a mistake and attacked full head on France and England homeland.
I tried the belligerent way.. took out France early, later the Dutch and England midway. Rome took out Germany, had Greece and subdued the Ottomans, and was at war with Russia. I won UHV on this one but.. this was Rome's game.
NOW for the Romans.
how Do I even Start with this start.
EDIT: Ariminium is now the new Roman capital. haha
I tried the peaceful way.. using settlers to control Carthage. I could have won if I did a colonial war: only attacked the (3) Euro lightly defended colonies. But I made a mistake and attacked full head on France and England homeland.
I tried the belligerent way.. took out France early, later the Dutch and England midway. Rome took out Germany, had Greece and subdued the Ottomans, and was at war with Russia. I won UHV on this one but.. this was Rome's game.
NOW for the Romans.
how Do I even Start with this start.
EDIT: Ariminium is now the new Roman capital. haha
Attachments
I've finished Rome (but not with that start). Doing it the classic way, take Athens, whip the cities for the buildings, etc... by the time I get to Carthage.. the barbs camels and elephants did half the job for me.
okay 14 Civ Monarchy UHV done! As for the rest... the trouble I'm having is with the Civ with expansion %, the Mongols and Persia. And I didn't(can't) even do any of the ancient Civs.
okay 14 Civ Monarchy UHV done! As for the rest... the trouble I'm having is with the Civ with expansion %, the Mongols and Persia. And I didn't(can't) even do any of the ancient Civs.
deanej
Deity
you might want to restart.
it did the "-1 turn remaining" glitch... you should have spawned on turn 90
otoh, maybe this one will be interesting enough with a greek colony there...
It's a shame Rhye hid the bug. Now the only way to know is to memorize the turn numbers for civs that don't start with calendar. Despite what Rhye thinks, it really is an important bug!
you don't have to remember... don't you get an auto-play screen pop up that shows the remaining turns left? Usually it stops at 0, but sometimes it goes on 1 turn...
I know sometimes the auto-play screen doesn't pop-up until the very last turn, but still you can see if it says "auto-play turns remaining: 0" or not...
deanej
Deity
In 1.187 Rhye hid the bug so that it says turns remaining: 0 even when it would have previously said turns remaining: -1. Basically the screen now lies to the player to hide the fact that a bug occurred.
um, I'm pretty sure I've gotten "-1 turns" screen a couple times with the latest patch... I cannot confirm it as a definite occurrance, but I recently was playing as Persia many times to try to overcome the UHV, and I got the -1 turns a couple times... 99.9% positive it was after I was patched up...
deanej
Deity
I've gone past the auto play that way, but it always said 0 turns remaining, and Rhye said he hid the bug.
Hamir
Chieftain
Finished Russia on Monarch and Emperor on the new patch, very enjoyable. Might write up my strategy soon, i played quite different games to win both.
Hamir
Chieftain
Russia strategy
Monarch – 600AD start. I like this as there are less barbs, and less unpredictability. You usually get Christianity quickly. Also I find that if Rome is alive then the Germans move east quicker.
UHV
Colonize Siberia (7 cities) by 1700 AD
Build the Apollo Program by 1950 AD
Never lost a single city until 1950 AD
These goals are all long term, so you don’t need to worry about them immediately. They basically require a strong, stable civilization, with an emphasis on tech (as well as defence). If you create the world’s strongest power, which you have all the tools to do, you should be able to complete these quite easily.
Starting moves:
Your immediate concern is getting your huge empire up and running. With so much land, the key to a successful empire is planning. Huge swathes of land mean you want to build as few cities as possible, using as much of the good land as is available, with minimal overlap. So plan ahead.
You have four settlers – move west immediately. On Monarch I like to have Tallinn and Tver as commercial cities (read, cottages), Kiev as Capital (1E of deer, lots of production, lots of food so you can build wonders & assign specialists), and Voronezh as a production city (south of Moscow, 4E from Kiev. This has Iron & Coal in range, so in late game Ironworks will turn it into an absolute monster (like 250 hammers/turn), while in early game it is excellent for troop and settler production). Later I built Jaransk in northern grasslands – no chopping and you can get 15+ specialists from National park later on, as well a city in the plains with the stone and iron in range, ripe for lots of watermills (also good for production).
If you are feeling aggressive you can move West and settle Budapest, another excellent all round city, but may feel the pressure of rival’s culture, and may make war more likely. I say go for it, but it’s up to you really, there are quite a few good combinations – just try and make sure you have a couple of commerce cities and a production city, and leave space for a national park city.
Germany’s early moves are key. If they move east too quickly it’s probably best to reload. You don’t want them founding a city in the Baltic region or eastern Poland. If you get there quick you can usually force them to settle for Warsaw, allowing your cities vital room to grow.
Civics:
HR, Vassalage, OR are obvious early choices. I usually start with slavery, whip out a lot of workers and then switch to Caste system. Slavery is not useful long term, as you don’t have much happiness to play with. Instead start chopping, and building cottages. Serfdom is an option but I prefer Caste System as it is better for specialists, especially scientists, and also useful for early culture for new cities. A tip is not to hook up iron too soon, and use your spare production from whipping workers to build some warriors (cheap happiness and plague absorbers) while population recovers to be re-whipped.
Go for Bureaucracy asap, as Kiev is a great capital, I kept it until late game. Long term Representation is vital for tech strength, and I like Communism (for historical reasons as well as growth – you have fantastic rivers so watermills are excellent, with Caste system workshops become great too). When I’ve gone Free market it’s worked well but can end in Great depression with your production heavy cities, especially after factories get built. But the main thing is getting a combo that works and planning ahead to get those techs.
Tech
The key to winning is tech. So, lots of cottages and lots of scientists. Early on you are behind in the tech race, I find a good tactic is to whip out a courthouse in Kiev and try and get a great spy as one of your first few Great people. The 3000 espionage points can steal you lots of techs from France or Germany very quickly (especially If you sit the spies in a city for minus 50% cost). I used it to get the cultural techs like literature etc from France which allowed me to build the Leaning Tower in Kiev (doubles great people rate). The other way to get back early on is tech trading, which is also vital. Keep an eye out and don’t be afraid to take a loss, within reason. Use your great scientists to build academies in your key commercial cities, as well as the odd bulb.
Obviously you need to defend your cities. So go for defensive troops in a decent number and make sure all cities on the west are well defended. Germany is the main threat but Vikings like to smash and grab so don’t give them a chance. Avoid unnecessary offensive troops, though I often build a couple of swordsmen with double City attack to go and conquer indy Samarkand early on, which is an excellent city that offers gems and cotton. But in the main, avoid war, at least until you are secure as the greatest civ in the world. You have plenty of land to work with of your own.
Siberia
By 1500 you should be a tech leader. I like to go for liberalism, and having bulbed most of printing press, get constitution as my free tech. Switching to representation & resettlement is a good time to start expanding east. There’s no need to build more than 7 settlers, and try to make sure you have troops to protect them. The key, again, is planning. There are some decent city sites out there, especially if you go for Communism and build watermills & workshops. Try and get as many worked tiles as possible and keep a decent distance from the Mongols. Build the cities as late as possible and try to have all the key roads built before you do. You want to get them working well as quickly as possible.
Research Institute
I gave this its own section as I think they are absolutely amazing. It replaces the Laboratory, and not only can you get it earlier (Electricity), it gives each city two free scientists. Due to its magnificence, especially with Representation, I beeline for Electricity as soon as I have Liberalism. You need an observatory first (so need Astronomy too from memory – I managed to trade for this). For this reason as soon as I build all my Siberian cities, I go observatory>research institute. This is where Caste system comes in handy, as you can assign artists for a few turns (in fact the AI does it automatically) until you have your big cross, so no need to waste time with theatres. This with your army of workers chopping and building should see you quickly regain all the tech costs from expansion.
When all of your 13-14 or so research institutes are built, and you have got communism asap so your Siberian cities don’t destroy you through maintenance, you should once again be tech leader. From this point it’s pretty much playing as normal, building up a decent defensive army, and working your land on a massive scale. Be clever with teching, and try to maintain good rate. If tech leader, I like to go for a few techs that give free great people. Getting golden ages are good for a huge empire like Russia. By the time you have factories with power your production power is something to behold, and you can build research if needs be.
End game
By this time I was miles ahead in tech and got Rocketry (for Apollo program), some time in the 1800s. I got a bit bored and went for a few big wars (destroyed Turkey and then Germany after they had the nerve to declare war on me). The key is the work early on getting ahead in tech, once you have done this, with your production power, you are nigh on unbeatable. You just have to be a bit lucky and hope you don’t lose a city to a surprise attack. Because of this potential i like to play a defensive game and only attack when attacked. Expect the worst, and don't underestimate the Mongols. I eventually moved to Universal suffrage (though this killed my tech), when stability got a bit low due to expansion, and to Emancipation when my people got uber pissed off, as well as Free religion when infrastructure was in place in my Siberian Cities.
-------
Wow, i ended up writing a lot, hope that's useful
For the record, i've read quite a few tips on this site and picked up quite a bit from the various Russia threads, so the strategy is a synergy of stuff i've read and my own experiences
Monarch – 600AD start. I like this as there are less barbs, and less unpredictability. You usually get Christianity quickly. Also I find that if Rome is alive then the Germans move east quicker.
UHV
Colonize Siberia (7 cities) by 1700 AD
Build the Apollo Program by 1950 AD
Never lost a single city until 1950 AD
These goals are all long term, so you don’t need to worry about them immediately. They basically require a strong, stable civilization, with an emphasis on tech (as well as defence). If you create the world’s strongest power, which you have all the tools to do, you should be able to complete these quite easily.
Starting moves:
Your immediate concern is getting your huge empire up and running. With so much land, the key to a successful empire is planning. Huge swathes of land mean you want to build as few cities as possible, using as much of the good land as is available, with minimal overlap. So plan ahead.
You have four settlers – move west immediately. On Monarch I like to have Tallinn and Tver as commercial cities (read, cottages), Kiev as Capital (1E of deer, lots of production, lots of food so you can build wonders & assign specialists), and Voronezh as a production city (south of Moscow, 4E from Kiev. This has Iron & Coal in range, so in late game Ironworks will turn it into an absolute monster (like 250 hammers/turn), while in early game it is excellent for troop and settler production). Later I built Jaransk in northern grasslands – no chopping and you can get 15+ specialists from National park later on, as well a city in the plains with the stone and iron in range, ripe for lots of watermills (also good for production).
If you are feeling aggressive you can move West and settle Budapest, another excellent all round city, but may feel the pressure of rival’s culture, and may make war more likely. I say go for it, but it’s up to you really, there are quite a few good combinations – just try and make sure you have a couple of commerce cities and a production city, and leave space for a national park city.
Germany’s early moves are key. If they move east too quickly it’s probably best to reload. You don’t want them founding a city in the Baltic region or eastern Poland. If you get there quick you can usually force them to settle for Warsaw, allowing your cities vital room to grow.
Civics:
HR, Vassalage, OR are obvious early choices. I usually start with slavery, whip out a lot of workers and then switch to Caste system. Slavery is not useful long term, as you don’t have much happiness to play with. Instead start chopping, and building cottages. Serfdom is an option but I prefer Caste System as it is better for specialists, especially scientists, and also useful for early culture for new cities. A tip is not to hook up iron too soon, and use your spare production from whipping workers to build some warriors (cheap happiness and plague absorbers) while population recovers to be re-whipped.
Go for Bureaucracy asap, as Kiev is a great capital, I kept it until late game. Long term Representation is vital for tech strength, and I like Communism (for historical reasons as well as growth – you have fantastic rivers so watermills are excellent, with Caste system workshops become great too). When I’ve gone Free market it’s worked well but can end in Great depression with your production heavy cities, especially after factories get built. But the main thing is getting a combo that works and planning ahead to get those techs.
Tech
The key to winning is tech. So, lots of cottages and lots of scientists. Early on you are behind in the tech race, I find a good tactic is to whip out a courthouse in Kiev and try and get a great spy as one of your first few Great people. The 3000 espionage points can steal you lots of techs from France or Germany very quickly (especially If you sit the spies in a city for minus 50% cost). I used it to get the cultural techs like literature etc from France which allowed me to build the Leaning Tower in Kiev (doubles great people rate). The other way to get back early on is tech trading, which is also vital. Keep an eye out and don’t be afraid to take a loss, within reason. Use your great scientists to build academies in your key commercial cities, as well as the odd bulb.
Obviously you need to defend your cities. So go for defensive troops in a decent number and make sure all cities on the west are well defended. Germany is the main threat but Vikings like to smash and grab so don’t give them a chance. Avoid unnecessary offensive troops, though I often build a couple of swordsmen with double City attack to go and conquer indy Samarkand early on, which is an excellent city that offers gems and cotton. But in the main, avoid war, at least until you are secure as the greatest civ in the world. You have plenty of land to work with of your own.
Siberia
By 1500 you should be a tech leader. I like to go for liberalism, and having bulbed most of printing press, get constitution as my free tech. Switching to representation & resettlement is a good time to start expanding east. There’s no need to build more than 7 settlers, and try to make sure you have troops to protect them. The key, again, is planning. There are some decent city sites out there, especially if you go for Communism and build watermills & workshops. Try and get as many worked tiles as possible and keep a decent distance from the Mongols. Build the cities as late as possible and try to have all the key roads built before you do. You want to get them working well as quickly as possible.
Research Institute
I gave this its own section as I think they are absolutely amazing. It replaces the Laboratory, and not only can you get it earlier (Electricity), it gives each city two free scientists. Due to its magnificence, especially with Representation, I beeline for Electricity as soon as I have Liberalism. You need an observatory first (so need Astronomy too from memory – I managed to trade for this). For this reason as soon as I build all my Siberian cities, I go observatory>research institute. This is where Caste system comes in handy, as you can assign artists for a few turns (in fact the AI does it automatically) until you have your big cross, so no need to waste time with theatres. This with your army of workers chopping and building should see you quickly regain all the tech costs from expansion.
When all of your 13-14 or so research institutes are built, and you have got communism asap so your Siberian cities don’t destroy you through maintenance, you should once again be tech leader. From this point it’s pretty much playing as normal, building up a decent defensive army, and working your land on a massive scale. Be clever with teching, and try to maintain good rate. If tech leader, I like to go for a few techs that give free great people. Getting golden ages are good for a huge empire like Russia. By the time you have factories with power your production power is something to behold, and you can build research if needs be.
End game
By this time I was miles ahead in tech and got Rocketry (for Apollo program), some time in the 1800s. I got a bit bored and went for a few big wars (destroyed Turkey and then Germany after they had the nerve to declare war on me). The key is the work early on getting ahead in tech, once you have done this, with your production power, you are nigh on unbeatable. You just have to be a bit lucky and hope you don’t lose a city to a surprise attack. Because of this potential i like to play a defensive game and only attack when attacked. Expect the worst, and don't underestimate the Mongols. I eventually moved to Universal suffrage (though this killed my tech), when stability got a bit low due to expansion, and to Emancipation when my people got uber pissed off, as well as Free religion when infrastructure was in place in my Siberian Cities.
-------
Wow, i ended up writing a lot, hope that's useful
For the record, i've read quite a few tips on this site and picked up quite a bit from the various Russia threads, so the strategy is a synergy of stuff i've read and my own experiences
Hamir
Chieftain
Russia – Emperor 600AD strategy
Most of the above applies to emperor, with a few key differences.
The main changes in your emperor game are that:
1) Leading in tech is harder
2) Your rivals are militarily stronger and more aggressive (especially Germany)
3) Good stability is harder to maintain
Given this, you have to play a very defensive game. You must go out of your way not to piss Germany off, and you have to work extremely hard to keep up with techs. And you must not over expand or you will pay the price.
To deal with 1) the only answer is cottages, and as many as possible. Obviously you have to maintain a balance with production, or you cannot build infrastructure, but cottages are incredibly important, so build as many as possible within reason.
A good way to deal with 2) and 3) together is through your City locations. Instead of Tallinn, I build Novgorod a bit east, which is in the core zone and further from Germany. It’s a great commercial city. However if Germany build a city that encroaches on your city cross, then it’s best to reload. The last thing you want is a Germany with -8 relations with you due to close borders. If you get a Germany with only one Polish city max, that is a fair distance from you, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to maintain good relations. They normally send one settler out east with a couple of troops. I find if you put your horse archers in their way they sometimes just turn around for no real reason. A monument in Novgorod and maybe Christianity can secure that land for you forever.
With emperor you need to be lucky, as if someone surprise attacks you then really you lack the capabilities to respond. Aside from that, you have to be very opportunistic, steal techs where you can, trade where you can, absolutely make the most of what you have. If someone has a tech you need you may have to turn up espionage for a while, as tech trading can be very difficult. You may not be tech leader, but with mass amounts of research institutes you can be the first to rocketry and get the Apollo program, which is probably the toughest bit. You still have massive production power, so should be able to defend yourself, but it can be tough to find the right balance, be wary of succumbing to the temptation of over-focussing on tech until one day you are attacked and have nothing to fend it off.
With this in mind, and a bit of luck, you should be fine
Most of the above applies to emperor, with a few key differences.
The main changes in your emperor game are that:
1) Leading in tech is harder
2) Your rivals are militarily stronger and more aggressive (especially Germany)
3) Good stability is harder to maintain
Given this, you have to play a very defensive game. You must go out of your way not to piss Germany off, and you have to work extremely hard to keep up with techs. And you must not over expand or you will pay the price.
To deal with 1) the only answer is cottages, and as many as possible. Obviously you have to maintain a balance with production, or you cannot build infrastructure, but cottages are incredibly important, so build as many as possible within reason.
A good way to deal with 2) and 3) together is through your City locations. Instead of Tallinn, I build Novgorod a bit east, which is in the core zone and further from Germany. It’s a great commercial city. However if Germany build a city that encroaches on your city cross, then it’s best to reload. The last thing you want is a Germany with -8 relations with you due to close borders. If you get a Germany with only one Polish city max, that is a fair distance from you, it makes it a hell of a lot easier to maintain good relations. They normally send one settler out east with a couple of troops. I find if you put your horse archers in their way they sometimes just turn around for no real reason. A monument in Novgorod and maybe Christianity can secure that land for you forever.
With emperor you need to be lucky, as if someone surprise attacks you then really you lack the capabilities to respond. Aside from that, you have to be very opportunistic, steal techs where you can, trade where you can, absolutely make the most of what you have. If someone has a tech you need you may have to turn up espionage for a while, as tech trading can be very difficult. You may not be tech leader, but with mass amounts of research institutes you can be the first to rocketry and get the Apollo program, which is probably the toughest bit. You still have massive production power, so should be able to defend yourself, but it can be tough to find the right balance, be wary of succumbing to the temptation of over-focussing on tech until one day you are attacked and have nothing to fend it off.
With this in mind, and a bit of luck, you should be fine
Excellent strategy advice, congratulations on your UHV's! I only wanted to add that I found causing an early collapse/vassalisation of Germany gives you more security when playing Emperor, otherwise you can find a phenomenal amount of troops turning up at your borders. I can also not overemphasise the importance of Great Spies in the early game. Steal techs until you are not researching anything anyone else already has.
Magnificent One
Stetsons are cool.
Is there a list saying for the 600ad civs whether it is better to play from 3000bc or 600ad?
Cosmos1985
King
Well, guess it goes for most of them that a 3000BC start is more random, obviously, so with the 600AD start you're more sure what to expect - You usually have more civs alive in the 600AD start, Persia or even Babylon can be strong, and China is almost always stronger than in the 600AD start. I don't know of any complete list, but if you name the civs you're considering, I'm sure people will try to answer you to the best of their knowledge.
Magnificent One
Stetsons are cool.
I myself consider Mongolia and America easier on 3000bc starts.Mongolia cos China could be harrased by barbs most of the game,and America cos Europe's techs are more on par with yours.
Other civs i'm wondering about whats start is better are Arabia,Turkey,France, and Germany,though i would be happy for others.
Other civs i'm wondering about whats start is better are Arabia,Turkey,France, and Germany,though i would be happy for others.
