Strategy doesn't work: AI never accepts GTP, even if it is only 1 GTP

[ongwin]

I find it impossible to get the AI to accept a deal which requires them to pay me gold per turn. I gave them 3 technologies in exchange for 10 GTP, which I thought was fair. Then they rejected it. So I went all the way down to 1 GTP and even threw in maps and cities, they just wouldn't accept! This happened to every single AI I traded with. Anybody know whats wrong? If I cannnot make them pay GTP, then I cannot choke them...

This was one of the strategies I read on this website, saying that instead of researching technology, buy it from the AI and then trade with all the other AI, and make the AI pay in GTP instead of a lump sum. Well how is it suppose to work? Why won't the AI accept GTP? Any comments appreciated. THnaks

 

[Ision]

1. if the AI is broke........ it can't do it.

2. if you have made a habit of screwing AI's by declaring war when you have deals with them....... they won't want to deal with you.

3. it sounds (because of your BIG tech lead) like you broke them financially a long time ago.

Ision

 

[zerksees]

Do you have an embassy with any of them?

What level are you playing at?

 

[Ision]

also, in the very early game when most of the AIs are still despotic or new to rep/monarchy......... they still can not afford a deal like that...........

sounds like you have a big lead, maybe it's time to move up in level

Ision

 

[Hornhelm]

I've also wondered how the AI decides whether they 'would never accept a deal like that' as opposed to merely being 'insulted at such a deal' (foreign advisor).

 

[THE WIZ]

I have had the same problem on Monarch level. They seem to get gold (they all have stores of it) but they wont trade GPT. It is so frustrating...I have good relations with them all. I get poor even if I am way ahead in tech.

 

[Catt]

If "they would never accept such a deal" it is almost surely either (1) they or you don't have enough GPT in current income to cover the deal you're asking for (treasury is immaterial - the AI only looks at current available per-turn surplus); (2) you are asking for the AI's sole source of a resource; or (3) your reputation is blackened by previous broken deals. Reputation is different than attitude - everyone can be polite or gracious, even if you've a terrible reputation; everyone can be furious even if your reputation is spotless.

 

[SuperBettaFish]

I don't know for certain, but maybe the AI wants to keep an option to attack you in the near future, and a GPT deal will keep AI from doing it?

 

[Beamup]

Isn't your rep irrelevant in the case of a give-tech-for-GPT deal? Sure, bad rep makes them very reluctant to <i>accept</i> GPT from you, but doesn't rep not matter as long as your part of the deal is entirely up-front?

 

[Offa]

I believe that when the AI is running max science they can't/won't do a gpt deal. They will often be prepared to offer loads of £££ up front but no gpt at all, even though it would be much cheaper for them. It is worthwhile checking if a gpt deal is availble as it indicates whether the AI is running max research.

 

[Affirmative]

AIs will never pay for cities in peacetime, ever. Any deal with a city included will automatically get the "will never accept" line.


"Never Accept a deal" means that they won't, they either don't have the money to pay, whatever, like Catt said.

"Will be insulted" means that your offer was too light, you need to give 'em some more stuff.




I have never seen a bad rep get a "Never Accept" response, a bad rep just means you need to pay more for a trade or ROP.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by Beamup
Isn't your rep irrelevant in the case of a give-tech-for-GPT deal? Sure, bad rep makes them very reluctant to <i>accept</i> GPT from you, but doesn't rep not matter as long as your part of the deal is entirely up-front?

Yup - if your rep is thrashed, offering any per-turn equivalent and getting any immediate benefit in return is very difficult, but accepting per turn for an immediate payment, or even accepting per-turn in exchange for per-turn is doable.

I included it as a summary of why one might get a "never accept" response instead of as an answer to ongwin's specific issue.

When in doubt, you can always propose the deal despite your advisor's warning -- the AI response can sometimes indicate whether it is reputational or something else that is causing the problem.

 

[civ_steve]

Early on the AI never pay gpt for anything.

If you're still in Despotism, not much chance of it. (They don't trust you.) Even in higher forms of government, the AI is pre-disposed to trade more favorably with certain types of government.

Embassy seems to make the AI more amenable to paying gpt for a deal.

Later on, say the middle Mid-Ages and later, the AI will pay very handsomely for certain techs. They have to establish a good tax collection system first.

Early on, best technique that I use is to wait until 2 or more Techs are available. Buy one with Gold (or gpt if you desire), and trade for the other(s), picking up whatever loose change is available. It's better if you have a Tech that you just researched, but no essential. It's rare if you actually get paid gpt in the Ancient Age.

 

[magicshane]

I have found the same problem. Also, if I do something like trade warrior code for 200 gold, it says he will accept the deal. If, after this, I ad in new york, boston, and even all of my cities, it says he would never accept this deal. it seems like offering cities has a negative value.

 

[JustBen]

The only reason the AI will not pay gpt is if they do not have the income to offer. Your income, government, civ choice, allies, enemies, power ranking, and reputation all have absolutely nothing to do with it. It may affect the actual price, but the trade advisor's comment "They would never accept such a deal!" is secret code for "they don't have the income to offer".

Try clicking the confirm deal button even after your trade advisor tells you it's a no-go. The civ will tell you why the deal is unaccepteable. They won't admit to not having the cash, but if reputation is ever a problem, they'll be happy to tell you excactly who you screwed over to make them upset.

 

[ongwin]

I had an embassy with all of them and I had gracious relations with them. I was in a democratic govt and even in the year 1800, trading nationalism, steam power and even medicine all for just 1 GPT is still impossible... I was playing at Warlord level, the one just after chieftien (I'm still a noob)

 

[NobleLeader]

Next time this happens, try to do this (I've already done):

- Offer the Civ all your gold per turn (for instance, 1,000 gold per turn = 20,000 gold). They will not accept (because of the several conditions already written in this topic).

- Then, offer all your gold in lump sum (1,000 gold). They often accept.

My conclusion: it's not a confidence problem, it's a financial problem. Check if the Civ have already learned Mathemathics and Economy....

 

[Old&Slow]

I`m probably missing the point here, but I never _first _ask a price either in a Tech or GPT or Lump Sum with them.

I always start with "what will you offer for...." and sometimes get far more in both a Tech, GPT and/or a lump sum or sometimes all three then I thought possible, or indeed would have asked for.

I think once at Warlord I got 2 Techs, 200 Gold LS and 5 per turn for something mid point in the Game.

 

[Catt]

Originally posted by JustBen
The only reason the AI will not pay gpt is if they do not have the income to offer. Your income, government, civ choice, allies, enemies, power ranking, and reputation all have absolutely nothing to do with it. It may affect the actual price, but the trade advisor's comment "They would never accept such a deal!" is secret code for "they don't have the income to offer".

But it can be confusing in the deal process, and reputational problems often make it confusing to those unfamiliar with AI trading rules.

With a blackened reputation, if you have any "per turn" offers on your side of the deal and the AI has any "lump sum" assets on its side, you will get the "never accept" -- one might conclude that the AI doesn't have the income for the deal, but it may in fact be the presence of the AI's territory map on its side of the plate that is causing the hiccup. Or, for example, you might start a negotiation by offering your tech for an AI tech and see that it might be acceptable. You might fool around a bit and also see that you can sell your gems to the AI for 15 gpt. If you try and combine the deals -- tech and gems in exchange for tech and gpt, you'll get the "never accept" even though you know that the AI has the necessary income -- your reputation prevents you from including any "per turn" item in a deal with an AI "lump sum" item.

Technically you're correct that it is not the presence of the AI's gpt portion of the deal that produces the "never accept," but for those unfamiliar with the AI trade rules, it pays to remember that there may be other aspects of the overall deal that are causing the "never accept" advice from the advisor.

 

[Cornflake]

Hmmm...I once got 17 GPT, a tech and connections for some saltpeter.

The enemies....tough not accually AI rarely accept GPT deals.