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Strategy for Cultural victory on Deity with civilizations with no cultural bonuses

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by tyroneslothrop, Mar 18, 2017.

  1. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    My wife has never read or posted on this board but has played Civ regularly for the last 15 years since Civ 3. Typically she is able to beat the game on diety level within about two weeks of the release and then she only plays on that level. She asked me to post this strategy for how she wins on Diety playing a civ with no cultural boosts, either with or without spies. The strategy has already been adapted below to the latest update which has some features that affect cultural victories on deity level. She also doesn't know if this strategy is a known strategy for Civ6 since she doesn't know what other Civ6 deity players do.

    With some luck, this strategy works without spies - for example, if you build cultural districts early enough. But with the latest update, it’s possible that spies are required to disrupt opponents’ space race.

    (Comments related to the latest update are in blue italics below.)

    Victory conditions:
    • Deity levels
    • Cultural victory
    • Player's civilization has no cultural bonuses
    • Latest Civ VI update
    • Without spies if lucky or with spies otherwise (may require spies since latest update to disrupt rocketry)

    Overall Strategy:
    • Focus religion & culture
    • Establish pantheon with bonus to relic tourism
    • Build Mont St. Michel
    • Switch government to theocracy when MSM is finished
    • Start purchasing apostles and explore the map with them to find other civs
    • Produce relics as fast as you can
    • Found 5 cities and have fully-developed cultural and holy districts
    • Start developing commercial hubs in all 5 cities
    • Buy Great People that benefit from tourism (for example: the Great Merchant that give bonus to 25% tourism with civ you have trade route with, the Great Scientist that increases tourism from antiquities by 300%, and the Great Merchant that increases tourism by 10% from industrial zones)
    • Attract Great Writers - if you had established all your cultural districts early enough, you would have attracted all the Great Writers, but if you find you don’t have enough writers, you can send spies to steal artworks
    • Become suzerain of many city-states, preferably cultural or scientific, but with a focus on military around your borders (this is especially important since the latest patch)
    • Usually by the time that you have a Great Musician to plant, the game is already over.

    With the latest patch, other civs are starting the space race in early 1600’s and win space race by 1800’s. Therefore, you must send out spies to disrupt rocketry. But to succeed, you have to have a strategy in place. This is the spy tactics to use.

    The general Spy tactics:
    • Plant spies in enemy city with commercial hub
    • Gain sources
    • Steal gold (higher percentage of success than disrupting rocketry)
    • Once gold is successfully stolen, you get a random promotion - select promotion which best enhances the future theft of artworks or rocketry disruption (depending on the goal), or which gives higher escape chances
    • If you are lucky enough to reach 90% rocketry rocketry disruption with a spy, you can move them from enemy city to city stealing or disrupting (depending on goal)

    The general Wonders tactics are:
    • Build Wonder with artwork slots
    • Build archeological museums in all cities, instead of art museums

    The general defense tactics are:
    • Have a defense unit in the city and a ranged unit on a hill nearby
    • Build walls only when the enemy is at your doorstep, since then they will already have spent time beating directly on your city before the wall is finished, and often, they will attempt to make peace the moment your walls are finished
    • Since the latest update, the enemy destroys your surrounding farms reducing your production and because your own military units don’t make much of a dent on them, it's important to be suzerain of military city-states around your borders so that they can join in the war when it is declared against you and they can be dishing damage to enemy units instead of you
    • Typically, along with being suzerain of the nearby military city-states, ancient walls and a few units are enough to defend a city and when an enemy sees they can’t beat you, you get a nice bonus and they make peace for the rest of the game.

    There are many nuances. She can answer any questions.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
    sugerdady87 and Victoria like this.
  2. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    She should read the culture guide I wrote in the tips and tricks forum. I am glad of any tips I can add to it, she sounds right up my street.

    The reliquaries was the first Op strat found after release.

    Kongo is a very powerful player of CV.

    The danger is a mid game and late game cultural player can cause issues with high culture but she is doing the right thing but likely not getting many GP on deity. So my question is how many does she get and why is she not mentioning seaside resorts?... I have got over 1500 tourism from them in a game before.

    I like the gold steal for promo's.

    For a CV on deity there are many srats. The one I like at the moment is going to the water early, taking all the coastal cities and building sandy beaches.

    This strategy requires only enough culture to defend yourself.

    Rely on Meritocracy, lots of gold and very high science. Eiffel tower is a Must, cristo is a nice to have, especially if Kongo is reliquaring
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 18, 2017
    sugerdady87 likes this.
  3. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    Thanks for the reply Victoria. She says:
    • I'm trying for a challenge when going for Cultural victory so I don't play culturally buffed civs and Kongo is the most buffed/OP civ out there. I've only played it once because cultural deity victory is too easy with Kongo. Instead, for a challenge, you might shoot for a cultural deity-level victory with America's Teddy Roosevelt instead.
    • Seaside resorts require Radio but if the opponents develop rocketry by early 1600's and attain science victory in the 1800's, as they do with the latest update, this doesn't give enough time for seaside resorts to be effective. I never have radio by the early 1600's when the opponents are working on rocketry, but the opposing civs have it. And by 1800's, there would not be enough seaside resorts to make a difference. So by the time I can build seaside resorts on diety level going for cultural victory, in great enough quantities to make a difference, the game is already over. I can imagine this strategy working on lower levels though. (But if I am missing something about this, let me know.)
    • As mentioned, the coastal cities & sandy beaches approach all rely on seaside resorts which doesn't work for me for the reason mentioned above.
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Umm Teddy is the most OP cultural player out there. He gets great defensive bonus of +5 on home continent and double ALL tourism like another computers when thje DJ's start kicking in.The guide shows all of this. If you want a hard cutural play, try Egypt. I do enjoy a deity win with her as it feels good.

    So a hard science push gets Radio earlier. Whats the 1600's turn wise? A good cultural win is around turn 180-200. A domination cultural win can be as low as 150 if lucky. A kongo kandy game around 100 is possible

    I have won a cultural victory with 0 theatres. You can just push science. She should try that as a different challenge. Just to win with seaside resorts. Turtling and reliquary/theatres is in fact a good standard powerful CV way but typically slows your win time

    Does she use projects? What about her take on diplomacy?
     
    Last edited: Mar 18, 2017
  5. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    She says:

    Actually, I found Egypt pretty easy to win a diety cultural victory with, but haven't tried with them since the new update.

    In general, I play the game according to my own set of game ethics which of course involve no restarts but also include things which may be less common, like playing the game as I imagine the game-makers intended - that is, to build all the wonders I can build, make my civilization beautiful and awesome, listen to the various messages and pronouncements, and so on. So actually pushing science only as a single dimension (which I imagine would require a geography where there are no nearby civilizations and some ideal terrain) seems to me to be almost an exploit - or at least an approach that goes against my game ethics. So when I play with my approach to the game and try for a cultural victory, Teddy seems pretty hard but Egypt pretty easy. For example, roughriders aren't useful to me since the game is over before they become a thing.

    I can't imagine how a seaside resort victory could work. I only every see about 4 places suitable for seaside resorts.

    I do use projects. To build some of the Great People, projects are needed. For diplomacy, I trade a lot, include cultural trades, and avoid wars. I have all sorts of relationship goals. I tend to trade in artifacts and artworks to make a themed museum (mostly I trade for works for literature and I always trade away artifacts before there is a full set so that my archeologist still has more turns and keeps making artifacts until museum is full). Then I steal back the artworks I had traded. The works of art that I trade away are in exchange for other things, especially for relics, which appear capped even with with Mont St. Michel, so I trade for relics to get above the cap.

    Besides Egypt, what civs do you find hard on Deity cultural? I am going for a cultural deity victory right now with the new Australian civ, and that seems hard but potentially doable.
     
  6. Abraxis

    Abraxis Emperor

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    I'm curious what your early eras are like with Egypt, I feel like you're probably the only other person on this board that plays with them. Do you have a consistent strategy or do you have many very different gambits for different starting conditions? Do you rush any of the ancient/classical wonders? Do you try and spread out fast with settlers or focus on your capital then conquer the surrounding area with maryannu? You said you like to focus on religion, do you get it by going holy site -> settler -> holy site/oracle -> faith purchase with faith from sphinxes? Or do you produce holy site prayers?
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You can get a victory with any country. A large percentage of your chance depends on your start position. Even then as long as you are flexible with strategy its not that hard.
    And no, you are not exploiting science, you clearly said you built lots of theatres and did not mention campuses.
    I currently build commercial, harbours and campuses, that is not an exploit, I do still build the odd theatre if Kumasi is not around.
    before the patch you were lucky to find many people to trade artifacts with, unless your game is long which by a lack of turn time and strategy I am guessing is. Its great you do and read everything, best value out of the game is in the mind of the beholder.
    For the answer to the resorts you have to look at the eiffel tower and grasp appeal.
    When trading, get open borders as well, then friendship, then ally. A good set of civs in an alliance is great.
    Open borders is Ok but is only 25% while trade routes which you can even get to counties that have denounced you can be 100%+
    There are 16 artifacts, I tested one game by getting them all and my martyrs just die without relic or message. Its in a thread from a couple of weeks ago. It seems there is only 16 allowed in the game and you cannot get above it, do you think different?
     
  8. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Maybe as Norway or peaceful Scythia?

    Seaside Resorts must be planned beforehand, by settling many cities by the coast and beelining Radio then Steel. You can plant woods before the Eiffel Tower to increase appeal of adjacent tiles too. It's a good backup with a Relic strategy, if you think you need another tourism push but can't build Theatre Squares (due to prohibitive costs or lack of district slots). But surely, you need more science than usual.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Seaside resorts are mainly an addition that speeds up victory, they are SUPER powerful with Teddy, he is such an OP late mid game CV player.
     
  10. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    Well, he needs to balance the fact that the only early bonus he gets is a +5 Combat Strength in his own continent (which was supposedly meant to be used as defense against early game aggressors)
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Defence?... Or passive agressive? It is the second that can net him his entire home continent on Deity. From there with good diplomacy the game is done
     
  12. ShinigamiKenji

    ShinigamiKenji King

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    What I meant is that the bonus was probably designed to act as a defensive measure against early aggressors, so that Teddy would survive to steamroll late game with his government bonuses, Rough Riders, P-51s and Film Studios.

    But then we players subverted it to become one of the best assets for early conquest.
     
  13. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    Well surprisingly, even in the latest update, AI still sends settlers out unaccompanied. So if you can come upon then and declare war to capture settlers, you can get a few cities. They will continue the war but by the time they get to my capital, I can have a good enough defense to fend it off. So my early eras tend to be the same whether it is Egypt or some other civ. Also, capturing settlers reduces the AI's capacity. This is not necessary though. If I am not lucky enough to capture settlers, it is still manageable. I tend to buy buildings that can be purchased. And yes, I go holy site -> settler -> shrine and then I look to see how AI's are developing in their faith so I can still get religion, and depending on that I choose either Oracle or Prayers.
     
  14. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    Actually, I've never had more than 8-10 artifacts. I didn't even know they go to 16. And since I usually have no more than 6 cities, I don't have places for that number of artifacts.

    Of course I respect every way people play the game and I don't impose my own way of playing on others. In fact I assume others are better than me since I win late in the game. (What I mean is that while I win by the 1800's, I am behind until I get computers and social media, and all my non cultural stats remain low until the game is over)

    In general, I've done the things you've mentioned, however I've won when all AI's are hostile (80%). Typically, I only have 1-2 allies and most denounce me since I have different government.

    Open borders don't work for me when AI's are all hostile, can't even send them a gift. This said, I've been shocked because in my current Australia game, a lot of countries want to be my friend. But I have never seen this before.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2017
  15. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    With the strategy I've outlined, Norway and Scythia both work well.

    My game is lengthy and science is critical to it, but it isn't first priority. I've won without science.

    I really don't understand how seaside resorts even work. So for example, my current post-update game as Australia, I am on an island with a lot of coastline. I'll count how many coastal tiles total vs. breathtaking vs. charming or less. 34 tiles total overall coastal. Out of these coastal, those with cliffs and mountains are 11 and not suitable. Out of the remaining 23, breathtaking are 8 and rest (15) are divided about equally between charming and average. Can one of you seaside resort proponents tell me how much tourism I can get from this setup?

    Also, it seems planting woods would take space from my districts, and seems lots of work.
     
  16. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    Maybe if one pushes science really hard, maybe one gets film studios earlier but then one has to also have to have a fully developed theatre square. But I don't really understand this sort of game because my strategy described, the game is over in the 1800's and I've either lost or won by then. It ends before I can even build one film studio. That's maybe because while science is an important part of my strategy, it is not the main thing and I am not keeping up with the AI in terms of science. In the games I play (using the described strategy), it seems when Teddy is strongest, I've already won (or lost) and so his attributes aren't really helpful.
     
  17. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    This is exactly what happens. But if one doesn't generate enough units, like how I play, it's just not a helpful attribute. The only early military I use is to steal settlers from the AI, and after that, my military is 100% defensive and there isn't much of it. His big bonuses for culture come too late for me. As mentioned, I mostly win/lose before I can build a single film studio.
     
  18. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    Netting an entire continent takes a lot of military and conquest I suppose. My strategy here concentrates on soft units that can't take a continent. Except for early units to capture AI's settler so I can get some early cities and damage the AI, my only hard units are defensive and not suitable for taking a continent. Nor is it necessary I find, to win.
     
  19. tyroneslothrop

    tyroneslothrop Chieftain

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    I suppose if one divides one's early game energies between "conquest" and "cultural victory", then maybe Teddy is helpful. But since I only have soft units for the most part, it doesn't really help my approach to the game. The conquest approach to cultural victory seems like a different sort of cultural victory than the one I've described.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    So each tile onthe map begins before terrain with an appeal value of 0
    The sea has all appeal removed
    Each side of a tile hex bordering on one of the following gets the value

    +2 Natural Wonder
    +1 per river/coast/mountain/oasis/trees/wonder/holy site/Ent. distict/Theatre district/
    -1 per rainforest/marsh/floodplain
    -2 per mine (must be a bug, should be -1)
    (A few others bit thats most)

    So you have 15 charming or average... what is stopping them? marsh and rainforest?... chop it down
    The Eiffel Tower adds +2 appeal to all your tiles
    Some GR add +1 appeal to all cities tiles
    American cities with national parks get +1 appeal to all tiles

    Feel free to wait until you get near computers, when you do not need mines anymore then remove the ones near the beach and for each builder hit you get a seaside resort.

    If the tile is +5 .... it will be worth 10 Tourism , 20 tourism with Cristo. 40 with computers . 23x40 is 920 tourism (1840 as America)... but of you get eiffel your average is unlikely to be 5. Also you do not have to plant trees everywhere but it is late game and every tree you plant is more powerful than a mine. Replace a mine with a tree and you are in essence +3
    Edit : I added the double for seasides I forgot about

    ####

    It does not matter if you win let alone how long it takes, as long as you are havin fun. But you know this.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2017

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