Strategy for Making Gold

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Jeddius, Dec 11, 2010.

  1. Jeddius

    Jeddius Chieftain

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    I'm currently having problems getting a spaceship victory because I'm running out of gold. Usually I hit the wall right about the time I need to build universities and colluseums. How can I make enough money to afford these and also a couple alliances with city states?

    I've been popping out trading posts but that doesn't seem to keep up. It seems to me that playing on Pangea would make it easier to make money because you'll meet more Civ's to sell things to vs. playing on archipelago. But can you sell open borders on pangea? I have never gotten the AI to buy open borders from me.

    Any help or general tips would be greatly appreciated!
     
  2. bonafide11

    bonafide11 Worker

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    Be aggressive so you can take a lot of cities early on, then spam trading posts in these puppet cities. Then also in your own cities that are meant to produce gold, build markets and banks. I think currency buildings are more important than science buildings since they help produce gold right away that then can be used to buy science buildings.
     
  3. Rathelon

    Rathelon Prince

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    Although I dont build gold buildings before science buildings, I agree they are important. One of the games I was playing recently, I kinda neglected the gold buildings more than usual and I could see the difference. They cost no maintenance, so no harm - no foul.
     
  4. HermannLombard

    HermannLombard Warlord

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    Well, here's one tip: when the AI offers to swap Open Borders with you, remove "Open Borders" from their column and substitute gold. 50 works at King and perhaps at Emperor; I think it's 30 at Immortal and Deity (in all cases assuming that they more or less like you).
     
  5. tbl35

    tbl35 Chieftain

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    I'm having financial problems when I play at Level 6 no matter how many cities I have, so I'm watching this thread closely. :) Level 5 I just crush everything, looking for a challenge but I haven't been able to win in any way since I started trying 6.
     
  6. EasyGoin

    EasyGoin Chieftain

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    I find puppets really being the best way to keep gold supply up and here's why:

    -They focus on gold buildings first
    -you want their production to be low (after producing gold buildings, but market at least is cheap) so they dont devour your income with junk buildings.
    - Puppets pump out lots of junk GPs for GAs
    - you don't rely on them to do anything useful
    - no courthouse costs as opposed to annex

    When I have founded cities, i hesitate to focus on working trade posts because I like those cities to be able to build what I need when I need it. Puppets suffer no such mental restriction for me. I spam every workable tile around the puppet with TPs and the cash flow shows.

    Other tips
    - build roads to all your cities. I hope this goes without saying. Note that Trade Route income depends on city size, so buying off maritime states, getting Forbidden Palace, getting Freedom, getting planned economy, all those things that add happiness and boost city size increase your income as well. Id be willing to bet the crossover point in #cities to where a Maritime CS pays for itself is probably quite low.

    - build gold buildings when you dont have anything more important to build. As mentioned, they are free, so there's no reason not to.

    - Don't waste gold. use foresight. Know how many turns you have until you need to spend money to refresh rep with a CS and don't use the gold you need to pay for that CS 5 turns before on something you don't need.

    - Don't have extra units. Delete old scouts and unused workers. 3gpt per unit adds up in a hurry.

    - get some key wonders. Chitchen Itza is excellent for gold with 50% GA duration. Machu Pichu is great for puppet economies and you can often take it quite late due to the mountain requirement.

    - before you decide to build something in a city look at the maintenance cost and at your +gpt. Ask yourself "do i really need that here?" if yes build it, if no don't.

    If you can do these things without building junk buildings in your founded/annexed cities, you should be able to maintain positive currency flow. The more cities you have, the money you will make. It is hard to keep up your treasury with 3 cities no matter how careful you are. With 30 all connected by roads and fed by maritimes, you won't have an issue unless you have a huge standing military.
     
  7. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    Split your empire into three types of cities according to terrain that surrounds them:
    - Science cities (focus on growth and tech buildings): mostly farms, some mines and lumbermills
    - Production cities (focus on culture, units and wonders): farms, mostly mines and lumbermills
    - Gold cities (focus on gold): farms, mostly trade posts, 1-2 mines or lumbermills

    As already mentioned, when you capture and puppet a city, it automatically becomes a Gold city (even the governor focuses on gold and gold-related buildings), so send your workers in and let them convert most of the terrain into trade posts.

    If you prefer a peaceful game however, you'll need to plan and convert at least half of your own empire into Gold Cities. Say, if you have 10 cities, 3 should be production, 2 science (the really big ones), and 5 Gold. Since there are really only three gold-related buildings (four if you include Mint), Gold cities will still produce other things, notably science and some culture.

    Oh, and be sure to connect all your cities to your capital. But I'm sure you already knew that.
     
  8. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    I never have a problem with money. All I do is start like this:
    Warrior, Scout, Scout, Worker

    -Scouts are important as they make gold for you by finding city states and making early contacts with AI civs for open borders trade and resource trades. Also good happiness generated early from natural wonders. I find it best to run each scout along the coast in opposite direction.
    -Settling near and developing luxury tiles is a priority.
    --I rush buy all my settlers and workers after the first.
    --Its ok to settle on luxury goods rather beside them.
    -Trading open borders and luxury goods is how you develop a super strong economy early.
    --Luxury goods should get you 300G or 10G/turn or somewhere in between like 143G 5G/turn. Aim for upfront money.
    --Open borders is 50G or 19G 1/G turn ideally.
    --Don't trade luxury goods for other luxury goods.
    -Balancing Happiness
    --Aim to buy happiness building after you can't settle anymore lands by luxury goods
    --Its better to run a little unhappiness for a bit so you can buy happiness buildings or develop CS allies.
    -City States
    --Maritime City States priory unless they can't provide happiness AND you need happiness. Get as many as possible.
    ---I don't get my CS that early like probably around T100.
    -City Size
    --I grow my cities as large as possible.
    --All cities build Monument, Library, Granary, Happiness, Market things, Science Things, Culture things in that order. You can skip the temple if you don't like.
    --Avoid military buildings (other than the one city you may have dedicated to production and military units)

    Large cities work more tiles and more tiles means more money as well trade route money.

    I automate my workers after all my settled cities have been developed. I don't really care how the land is developed in puppet states.
     
  9. biohazard72

    biohazard72 Prince

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    ICS is enough to keep your income positive almost the whole game, until sometime in Industrial. At that point I'm making Markets and Banks in cities that don't have the production to make Public Schools. That tends to keep the income coming.
     
  10. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    @tbl35 and noting that your skill level will improve with experience

    I play on Level 7 (Immortal) usually on small pangaea maps, and as my skill level is still improving, I've easily beaten the AI's in my last few games (OK I lost my first couple games on Lv 7 maybe 6 weeks ago when I stepped up from Lv6). What EasyGoin says here basically hits the nail squarely on the head, except than on Immortal, unless no AI is at all strong, you'll be beaten to Chichen and often to Machu and for that matter usually to Taj. (On level 6, you can usually get some(most) of those wonders if developing well)

    The one wonder that I can usually get on Immortal, Forbidden Palace, is getting somewhat of a nerf in the patch (that seeks to KILL anything that resembles ICS). (I also can, if desired, easily beat the AI's to Stonehedge, which for the price of two monuments provides 4 times the culture, costs no upkeep and gives me GE points.

    I don't want this to be too long a post, but I play like a Borg (StarTrek) Puppet Master and basically puppet almost everything and only raze poor cities in poor spots that don't fit my planned road network and don't have happiness buildings or wonders.

    I, rather quickly connect new found and conquered cities to my road network and this helps trade income as these cities grow. Meritocracy keeps my happiness in check (although getting nerfed so I may have to raze more post patch). By not founding too many of my own cities early on, I keep cultural costs down and am not severelu unhappy. That being said, founding 4 or 5 new cities and then once they hit pop 3 or 4 putting them all on production focus and cranking out an army and attacking is quite strong.

    Once you have a decent puppet empire, used some workers (preferably captured) to replace some of your puppets' farms with TPs. This will give you more gold since they run Gold Focus, and also somewhat slow down their growth if happiness is an issue. Once you get the SP from the Rationism Tree that give you 1 science per TP, your tech level jumps as well and the TP spam becomes awesome.

    My maps around turn 250 (assuming they go that long as they usually do) have TPs all over my puppets' land. Most of my founded cities (or any that I rarely annex) are more production oriented and have mines on hills rather than TPs (although I may switch some mines to TPs if I feel the need). I also may build a few early river farms and switch them to TPs.

    By attacking someone early and often, I can usually take a few cities, get more space for my empire, cripple an nearby future enemy, and have a few workers to use as slave labor. My money is used to by military and to bribe CS and for some RA's. Very rarely do I buy a settler or worker. I'll buy a settler if it is absolutely imperative to make a city to stem AI expansion that may break my trade route or if I much simply have a luxury (settle right on it). I'll basically only buy a worker if I absolutely must improve a luxury asap to prevent crippling unhappiness.

    So, in summary and noting Emperor is easier than Immortal. Make an army and go out and take a few AI cities and put TPs in them and connect them to your trade route.
    Captured workers can often do all this for you. I often am building roads towards the front, both to speed reinforcements and to mean that my newly conquered cities are connected to my trade routes quicker. AI cities tend to quickly be decent size on Immortal and often there's a quick jump in income once connected.

    .. neilkaz ..
     
  11. Rathelon

    Rathelon Prince

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    ::grumblemuttermumble:: Flippin' AIs always beat me to Machu Pichu
     
  12. Varanid

    Varanid Warlord

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    they go hard for Machu Pichu it seems like. of course, it seems like my best developed cities are never near a mountain either so that doesn't help.
     
  13. Bibor

    Bibor Doomsday Machine

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    This isn't Starcraft. And even pro Starcraft players know build orders and universal strategies are crap.
     
  14. EasyGoin

    EasyGoin Chieftain

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    Ha! AI always beats me to machu pichu too, but thats because I forget about it for 100 turns, eventually go to change something in one of my cities that just so happens to be close to a mountain, and see it available to build. I go Awesome! Machu's still available. 15t build time, I get 13t in and the AI builds it.

    If you want it early, ive found you can usually get it. Unless of course you have no mountains in your territory, which is highly possible.
     
  15. MykC

    MykC Warlord

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    In general this is a very flexible and safe start. Of course something in some situations will be better than others. This isn't startcraft but we are playing against an AI, soo....

    Civ has a huge number of variables when you start the game and this greatly impacts your initial decisions. We can only generalize.
     
  16. cripp7

    cripp7 Playin' Bored

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    Something I'm wondering about is when building :c5gold: does it get the gold building modifiers like in CivIV?
     
  17. Martin Alvito

    Martin Alvito Real men play SMAC

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    Your finances are more or less dictated by your supply of luxuries until you have a number of Colosseums up. Trade routes do not show much profit in size 2 cities, and you won't be building Trading Posts early on.

    Once you have the Colosseums and Universities up, your finances are driven by trade routes and the share of your population you have producing Gold. Cities that can build Mints and work multiple Gold/Silver tiles are wonderful for balancing the budget. Every extra Happiness point spent somewhere other than the capital leads to 1 GPT regardless of the tile/specialist slot the citizen works, so you should consider the counterintuitive proposition of adding more Maritimes if you have a big Happiness surplus and cashflow problems.

    Finally, Taj Mahal and burning Great People on Golden Ages can cure a cash deficit in a hurry.
     
  18. dashwinner

    dashwinner Prince

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    most of your advice made sense, except for this last part. its a bad idea to automate workers. as someone above mentioned, puppet states focus on gold, so having workers build farms will just increase your unhappiness, and mines which will have the puppet cities build more useless buildings quicker. its surprising how much it can affect your income.
     
  19. neilkaz

    neilkaz King

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    Worker automation is for those who want to play 2 levels below their ability if they learn to have fewer workers and two NEVER automate them.
     
  20. nindustrial

    nindustrial Chieftain

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    On a related note, without starting a whole new thread, what do people consider a healthy income (and I'm sure this may very by what stage of the game, but feel free to specify). I've been winning consistently on King, but I still find myself doubting my choices on when to stop focusing on gold production and swing back to producing things (be they units or buildings) that will drop income again by virtue of maintenance.
     

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