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Strategy for Science Victory in 140 Turns or less

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by civtrader6, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Hit a Boost? I am not sure what this means

    What I am finding is when I am racing up my science at one tech per turn nearing the end then pillaging a mine or ziggurat allows me to get 2 or more techs per turn. Is that what you mean by boost?

    EDIT: Rather than post additionally.... I build a visual diagram of science earnings so people can assess value better... note I say better, this does not include time through the game or chance of obtaining (like getting 3 CS papal primacy) It is not perfect, it assumes lots of things like an average of 6 population and 6 envoys. It is aimed as a simple guide so please do not criticize. Its helped me realize that an early library with specialist outstrips adjacency.
    upload_2017-12-20_17-41-33.png

    Based on this
    upload_2017-12-20_17-45-49.png
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2017
  2. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Good Job on early conquest!
    At least at T69 everything seems set for a quick victory. my key question would be - what did you do culture wise? Its really important to generate lots of culture as this opens the doors to pretty much everything else.

    As for the Big Ben - I did not reflect on that properly in my original post - but virtually from Turn 1 I am on the lookout for a city that will be building the Big Ben and do lots of forward planning to make sure I can get BB in the T130-T140 range.
    I need the city to have at least few good hills and I look at the surrounding tiles for woods/dear/stone - to be chopped only at the very end. I will often not build a library and university in this city but rather go straight into building market/bank as soon as possible. This is pretty much the only city, apart from the capital that will get a granary, sometimes even a water-mill. Similarly - in saving chops for later I may even build (my only) lumber mills (especially if there's wood next to the river). I will clear marsh, sheep/cattle to grow pop too. Often I will send one early internal trade route with good +food to strengthen the city. If possible, before starting on Big Ben (say 50/50 chance) I may squeeze an industrial zone as well - all geared toward having a city with around 30 production. In this way - you can start Big Ben even at around T110 and finish before T130 with 4 chops.
    If there is a great engineer (the +200 production for wonders) it will make things more relaxed.

    As for the spaceport - few things. First - after getting the techs you need otherwise (and balancing the tech progression with Economics for Big Ben) - its important to beline the spaceport.
    It is also important to plan a city where to build it.
    I've seen Victoria/Lilly fully chop their spaceport. I tried once or twice and it didn't really work as well (guess I miscalculated the tiles/yields).
    If I'm producing the spaceport in the capital - then a few rules apply: no early chops in the capital - need to save all possible chops for the spaceport (you need 4+ for the projects plus as many as you can have for the spaceport itself).
    Then - its important to build strong production. Can I get it to 10 pop? (usually 10 pop is fine). It will likely grow a bit with the final chops but that comes too late. Building strong production often requires a trade route (or a few when the spaceport starts). Normally also getting an industrial zone and if done early enough squeezing a workshop and a factory, as well as a possible envoy in an industrial city-state or two. But in general - aiming to start building the spaceport in the T100-110 range. When placed it will normally say 50ish turns to completion. And then the struggle starts to speed it up.
     
  3. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Adjacency! Its good to have it if it comes naturally. Its also good to buy it (very early, for the first couple of cities - if its crazy (e.g. +3,+4). Otherwise, IMO, one of the biggest mistakes players make is investing large amounts of money or delaying districts to get a +1,+2 adjacency :(

    I've had quick victories where campus adjacency bonus - when doubled with the policy - would yield +40/+50 science.
    But, I also had some where mountains were rare and adjacency yields were negligible. So I would not even use the adjacency card.

    Good table btw.
    It gets better though. There's a few Great Scientists that are almost game changers. My experience is this:

    So:
    Hypatia - Classical era - +1 science to libraries. (+2 after rationalism).
    Amazing as it speeds things up early. But in most games you will not get it.
    Newtown - Renaisance - +2 science to universities (+4 after rationalism).
    Great as it also comes early enough. You get him in majority (but not all) of the games. Easy to miss on Deity/Immortal. Pretty much guaranteed if you go for Divine Spark.
    For example, if you grab him at around T90 - assuming you have rationalism and 10 universities at T100.
    Einstein - Modern - +4 science to universities (+8 after rationalism)
    Comes pretty much always. Although in some games - does not make that much of a difference (still appreciated). Does allow catching up on science. Especially amazing with civs (like Gorgo - that can reach Globalism early).

    But when you add things up - all the provide maybe 1000-2000 effective extra science in total. Which is not that much (essentially, one late game tech) - but does slightly speed up progression.

    Never tried the pillage route. But there's a few important boosts that you can get through a late war, from the top of my head:
    Nationalism (declare a war with casus belli) - saves around 400-500 culture.
    If you've founded a religion then there's often a chance to declare a Holy war. Protectorate war (when someone attacks your city-state is also great - but only had the chance to use it once).
    Civil Engineering (build 7 specialty districts) - also saves around 400-500 culture.
    Sometimes I, either due to map or my sloppiness, I might be missing the 7th district - so this is a way to get it.

    The two above are the most important ones as culture and early democracy is precious!
    But there's also a few potential science boosts (situational), that might be worth sending your idle army to get, such as
    Plastics (build an oil well - for example, in a distant city state territory) or Nano-technology (build an aluminum mine).
    Also, sometimes capturing a distant enemy/city state city is an ideal location to chop an aerodrome or a couple of sewers.

    Now that all applies to regular games. But if you're playing deity, then sometimes it also makes sense to attack a very distant neighbour - often with underpowered troops - just to get a city or two for good boosts. For example, a far-away and runnaway Kongo can often yield both the archeological and art museum. In other games, I normally try to chop both (or at least the archeological) in one of my cities.
     
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  4. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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  5. MrDoubleG

    MrDoubleG Chieftain

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    First of all, great read. You guys are so far ahead of what I am even dreaming to maybe be some day as a Civ player. A lot of your posts give great advice on how to start and what to go for, but it is kind of hard to put it all together in one continuous flow.
    Is there a video series available that one can watch to really get the gist of what to do when in more detail? Or would one of you (Lily, Victoria, civ6trader,...) be willing to create one? I am getting fairly good at getting to L2 government around T50, but after that I seem to be at a loss what to do next. Also when to use builders to chop and when to improve also sometimes seems to be unclear to me...

    So, if you could help me (and I bet a lot of other admirers) out with some more detailed - even turn-by-turn advice

    Thanks a lot in advance
     
  6. Chueli

    Chueli Chieftain

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    I have no clue how to get to Feudalism quickly. I get there after T70 usually, on deity, even with an early settler steal. I'm trying to squeeze in monuments (repairing them If captured cities have them), getting Open Pastures pantheon, hitting all the boosts except Games and Recreation. +1 Culture from Autocracy helps a little. Where else can I get Culture?
    Pillaging quarries seems key, but what if there aren't any?
     
  7. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Well I know @civtrader6 did a recording for GOTM28. But how willing they are to share is a good question
    I guess I can sometime maybe over Christmas. The problem with these is they take a long time to play even though they are short on terms as there is lots of management and planning involved.

    One key thing is the Eureka's, you just cannot afford to miss many or go over 50% accidentally before you get them.
    Culture is also gained from
    • Monuments and a great source of these is taking cities early.
    • Resources like Marble and Silk.
    • Culture city states, first envoy, or quest... every +2 counts
    • Trade routes... +2 production/+1 food or +1 culture / +4 gold ... I know which I would go for.
    • Looting is indeed a source. Take what you can.
    • Capturing Theaters also. Having at least one theater is handy
    • The coliseum... 2 per adjacent city within 6.
    • Natural Wonders if you are lucky enough.
    • Capturing wonders that give culture.
    I am not as good as Lily & Civtrader6 at all this. But trying to get better.
    Feudalism is only the first step. there are lots of key places in the civic tree you need to get to but the end goal of Democracy is a must. If you slack off on culture you can end up waiting for it at the end.

    What I am finding is great about the SV this way is it is quite complex with many facets but getting that culture down is an important starter. Its not the end of the earth to miss T60 but you must appreciate that the earlier you can get knights going the faster they are. To get sub 200 you do not have to hit the marks, just ensure you try your best. Not every game can be T150 finish by any means but with a good aggressive start you should be able to get to T200. Practice and consideration to how you can improve are key points. For example do not think you need to build lots of campus early, you really need things like your military and culture rolling first and you need science City states with envoys and you need to be keeping an eye on Eurekas, City state quests, scouting, Pyramids, Coliseum and Big ben, rocket site, chopping benefits, its a lot. Yes getting the Campus placed early is important but they do not need finishing immediately, especially if other things like troops and monuments and eureka's need doing.
     
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  8. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    You mean to boost urbanization ?
    I've tried a few times and gave up on it - as the yields (plus the housing reduction) seemed not worth it at that point. Maybe I should reconsider.
     
  9. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I think it's one of those things, sometimes its not only possible but just requires an aqueduct and a few farms. It is an expense and its for culture not science. I guess if its there and you are struggling a bit with culture its an option.
     
  10. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Chieftain

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    I have perhaps a silly question, but it's been bugging me for a while now. The thread is rather recent, so I don't think it's patch problem either.
    The OP suggest to save 1-charge workers for Feudalism, but I never seem to get an additional charge on them once I tech it and/or adopt Serfdom. What am I missing?

    Beyond that, looks like I still don't push science fast enough. I opened @civtrader6 's 6otM28 save (t120) where he was generating ~1.7K bpt. I've never managed to reach such numbers peaking at a little under 1k with 30+ cities. Are there any particular perks that boost science (campuses specifically)? My campuses' output is on average ~5bpt lower than his.
    Again, TIA. This thread is great. Very helpful for those of us who can't clock too many hours yet want to get decent. :)

    P.S. Looking forward to that recording. ;)
     
  11. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Save 1 charge workers for Pyramids
     
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  12. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Chieftain

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    Of course! How didn't I think about that myself? Thanks! :)
     
  13. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Chieftain

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    I bought the game this month and I'm still trying to get my head around the new mechanics compared to Civ 5. This guide is awesome, even if I don't understand half of it yet.

    I've got a couple of simple questions - trying to understand the OP. He/she writes about placing CD's. But I don't think he's refering to Campuses. Because OP talks about building CD's before Campuses. Can anyone tell me what a CD is?

    Secondly OP talks about early placement of districts to avoid costs later in the game? As in, place the district but don't complete it...at least that's what I understood it to mean? So, does this mean that the production cost of districts increases with each era? Or have I misunderstood?
    I'm going back to reread and there's plenty of other terms I don't understand but I think if I get to grips with these basic concepts I might understand more of the OP.
    Merry Christmas.
     
  14. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    CD = CH , commercial hub.

    Yes, have a read of the chopping example linked in my signature, at the bottom of it it also has a table showing the cost of districts is based on the techs or civics currently discovered when you place the district.

    And yes, a lot is different to V, good luck, but mostly...enjoy!
     
  15. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Chieftain

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    Thanks that helps a lot. I went to the post you linked to and wow, that's a lot of interesting info to take in. I've read it once but like the OP of this thread I need to go back and reread and digest. There's a lot of information there.

    I am enjoying the game. I'm still pretty meh about the poor war AI but the more I dive into the nuts and bolts of the ciiv building game mechanics the more enjoyable it becomes and the more I can ignore the rubbish wars ;).
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2017
  16. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    A science CIty State gives +2 science to each campus for 3 envoys and +4 for 6 envoys. It does not seem like a lot but if you are lucky enough to have 3 science city states and 20 campi that is 240 science per turn just for the city states.
    Then jou may have heard of Papal Primacy belief, this gives 1.5 x the city state gifting if they follow your religion so no science building, just campi... 360 science per turn.... that's a lot.The same works with any city state.

    If you like building then don't read this thread, it's built for speed. My game last night was a totally peaceful spy game, my target to stop was 6 master spies, it's rare I go for official victory conditions but I like the mechanics which is why I am here. I manage to ally with 6/7 civs by T301. I also did about 20 research agreements.
     
  17. Greasy Dave

    Greasy Dave Chieftain

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    I need to read the thread to understand basic mechanics I haven't understood :) The documentation with the game is so awful. After I've started working out how to optimise my science game then I'll start to experiment.
    But to be honest, I'm more a conqueror and fighter than builder. But given that the fighting isn't very good and I'm steam rolling without knowing what I'm doing, trying to challenge myself with the building game has become more interesting. I'll move into peaceful games when I've worked out how it all works. ;)
    THanks for the help.
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    In the case you are a fighter and finding it too easy then this is the perfect thread.
    This T140 is tough. Set T200 as your first target to reach. T140 is very hard, especially if not a powerful civ.
    This science victory is quite a fun flexible puzzle
     
  19. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    Does this still work? I started a game this morning, following the directions in the first post as much as possible. Gilgamesh; don't remember if it's King or Emperor level. I'm on about turn 130-something and have been allied with a scientific CS almost the whole game with 6 envoys. Now sending envoys to a second scientific CS. I got a pantheon (Stone Circles) but no religion. Currently I'm the tech leader but not by all that much.

    Germany and I were the only ones on this continent. I declared war on a CS separating us at about turn 35 and captured them, mainly for their iron. (it has turned out to be one of my best cities) Then settled as many cities as I could on my half of the continent. I hit Stirrups and Mercenaries at pretty much the same time and upgraded all my war carts and archers, and declared war on Germany. I captured all their cities on my continent except one pitiful one down in the corner, and I liberated the CS they captured. If I recall correctly, I'm currently building the Great Zimbabwe, the Coliseum, and a couple of universities. And I'm just about to discover Gunpowder and Mercantilism.

    Harald is the only other AI I have met, but that should be changing very soon when I upgrade my 2 galleys to caravels and build a privateer and send them all out exploring.
     
  20. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi @Chueli,
    some great advice by Victoria above.

    I'd just like to add that getting to Feudalism at T70 is totally ok. In some games, if I'm lucky it may be a few turns faster. In some games, I may delay it a few turns to maximise the builder wave.
    Now, pretty much for all the cities I settler (especially the second city) - I build the monument first. The only exception may be a city planted specifically to build a Coliseum (in cases where the city is put up late etc). In some later cities I may switch out of monuments to hit the builder wave.
    So assuming you get feudalism at T70 mark - in the next 20 turns you should be going through some rapid changes in your empire.
    Ideally - you should be looking at 15 to 25 cities. Say 20ish. Each with a monument thats 20*2 = + 40 culture. Soon you will be able to slot in the card that gives +1 culture for each district (so should be around extra +25 to +40 culture). Coliseum should be there hiting at least 6 cities - so +12. On a normal map you would also be looking to at least an envoy in 1to 2 cultural city states - say +4. Population should add say 20x3citizens x 0.3 = +18 more (probably a bit more) and a few points of culture should come from other sources (worked tiles, amenities, a theatre square etc).
    So you should be looking at a minimum of 100ish culture very soon - and growing. All this is important because now you need more and more culture to get all the perks (rationalism, doubling science buildings output; a series of envoys to maximise your science/gold income; second builder wave with civil engineering, democracy etc)
    Very often I slot in the card that gives +1 culture +1 science per trade route (for a minimum of +10 culture) etc. And try hard to squeeze as many trade routes that add extra culture as I can (but kinda trying to balance it with gold). If you've got Kumasi or Antanarrivo it gets crazy better - in which case you may even consider going toward globalisation (in which case having a few theater squares / great works of writing would also be needed). Even though the goal is science victory, I do not try to maximise science from trade routes - but gold and culture.
     

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