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Strategy for Science Victory in 140 Turns or less

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by civtrader6, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    For cities, since the influence of amenity, in fact not more citizens lead to better yields. The best pop for a city is 6 due to my calculation, so for each city, you just have to assign where these 6 citizens will be working, and improve those tiles, the yield of other tiles are useless and you can assign districts freely.
     
  2. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    I had asked you before in that thread, but didn't get an answer so I'll try again. Would it be worth it for Rome to build Baths to get these cities to 7+ pop and get another district + yields from the citizens and worked tiles?
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Not for the housing I think, but the amenity may worth. Since amenity is a percent modifier, its good to build them in high-yield cities and not good in low-yield cities.

    Also depends on your finishing speed. If you finish after T200 then bath are always a good choice, but if you finish around T150 they're situational.
     
  4. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    My best games are still in the T200 range. I'm not fast enough at conquest to match the speed with which everyone else here seems to be able to conquer, so I never get those 25-30 city empires. I usually stop at 15-20 cities, and try to grow them a little larger to compensate, but my results have plateaued with that approach.
     
  5. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    What about using a trade route or working just food tiles to get a city to 7 pop to build a third district, then starve it back down to 6?

    I never get 30+ cities either until very late in the game if/when I go on a rampage. (and then it's annoying trying to manage them all since Civ6 still doesn't have a build queue)
     
  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    Why do you want a "third" district? I cannot see any helpful "third" district options.

    Also, if you want to rush food, the best option is always harvesting, which ignores the housing limit, thus becomes a very good source, allows you to get the 15 eureka with only 10 housing.

    For most self-built, or small captured cities I only build one district--campus. Even a "second" district shall be based on current district discount situations.

    Yeah, for captured cities the situation varies. For every large captured city you have to plan it even before you capture it.

    For district discount, see https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/district-discount-mechanism.625743/
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2018
  7. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    I'll have to study that. The concept of limiting your cities to 6 pop is new and totally foreign to me :)

    I figure every city gets a campus; it may be the first district or it may be the second. Almost every city gets a commercial district or a harbor. At least one theater district somewhere for the culture. And you might need a well-placed industrial district once you can put a factory in it to provide hammers to multiple cities. And one entertainment district if the Coliseum hasn't already been built by an AI. You'll probably capture an encampment somewhere, but if not you might need one if strategic resources are scarce.

    So that could work with 2 districts per city, but it still seems like you'd want 3 or 4 districts in some cities.
     
  8. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    What?:crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye::crazyeye: Only 2 are needed for market eureka I think.
     
  9. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    You need 4 trade routes for the Guilds eureka; not sure if that takes 2 districts or 3. But I thought you'd need lots of trade routes for the gold to recruit Great People, plus all the other stuff you spend gold on (unit upgrades, and buying stuff in low production cities that would take too long to build)
     
  10. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    So, (oversimplified so I can understand it) every city plants a campus district as soon as possible but doesn't necessarily build it until Feudalism, when you start spamming builders. (finishing them raises the production costs in future cities) The first couple of cities also place a commercial district, and might actually build those before the campus for the eurekas.

    Delay the sailing techs as long as possible to keep your total number of techs down while advancing the ones that really matter. And eventually when all the good real estate is taken you keep spamming snow cities that just have a monument, a granary, and a campus?
     
  11. Bebekija

    Bebekija Chieftain

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    I like how this thread has become one of the most active of the whole S&T forum... just shows how deep this topic just is.

    On another note, i can't help but notice that GOTM 28 is now closed.
    So... should we expect civtrader's run to go live soon? :mischief:
     
  12. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    You need to put a @ in front of the name and that alerts them you are talking about them.. @Bebekija
     
  13. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Chieftain

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    Hey and thanks. I've also seen someone post a screenshot of 3k+ science output (with the same 35-40 cities), which, quite honestly, blew my mind. I gather placing research labs would do that? I have a feeling there's something very basic I am missing when it comes to science push, or perhaps I am just generally slow. I find labs to be too expensive, so I usually don't bother, unless I can faith purchase them (not even sure if that's worth it). Seems like you don't favor them either, which is reassuring. I also try to gobble up key GS and assign specialists as soon as I have enough pop (often times the cities stagnate at size 4 with campuses and cd's/theaters and that's it). I hit ~t180, but anything below is pretty much mission impossible. There's obvious science bottleneck before I can build a spaceport.
    Anyway, I wanted to try 6OTM28 map myself, but haven't got to it yet. So in the meantime I'll keep pestering you about the recording, along with others. :p
     
  14. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi all,
    I'm out of the country (and youtube/google is blocked here) - but I'll try to post the videos as soon as possible.
    In relation to the questions in the last few days:

    @zxcvbob
    You don't really 'delay' districts for the sake of delaying - you delay because for the first <70ish turns (which corresponds to Feudalism) you have other priorities namely: * building your first and second army (mostly I do this exclusively in capital, but sometimes also spread the heavy chariots across 2-3 cities) * finishing monuments in your first few cities (always monuments first) * finishing the builderwave in all available cities.
    So districts will come only once the above is completed - and hence, the foundations of your empire are set.
    With the exception of maybe one early district (e.g. campus for the state-workforce boost, in case you couldnt capture anything close and fast; or maybe one central city that is building an entertainment complex for colloseum) all other cities should be working on some of the above and not districts. If a city has high enough production then it should be used for settlers (after the monument of course). Once a city has churned all 'reasonable' settlers, has a monument and has almost finished a builder (one turn left) you can switch production to other districts.

    Granaries maybe only in capital (or whatever will be your spaceport city) and maybe (just maybe) in the big ben city.
    Industrial zone in capital (for the purpose of eureka) - not really to provide production to other cities as this makes very little impact with quick science victories (of course, you can take a different strategy with germany and germany only etc).


    As for cities - the question is what districts can they build and build fast. Very often, there is no point in building a 3rd district as it will not have time to provide returns. Similarly, internal trade routes are useless - except for propping up the spaceport & big-ben city.
     
  15. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi @DanaLea,
    this is pretty much never a concern with aggressive quick science victories as you will eliminate all your close neighbors - which prevents the victory.
     
  16. universecreep

    universecreep Chieftain Supporter

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    Isn't it easier to get faster science victories on the higher levels since you benefit from the fast research of the AI's?

    I thought that it was this way in Civ V.
     
  17. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi @Unversecreep yes and no.
    There are only indirect benefits from fast AI research.
    On higher difficulties AI will spam more cities and more districts for you to take, but the conquest may not be as fast and you'll need to invest into better army. Often, it will be prohibitive to attack more than the 2-3 AIs on your home continent. More cities though is not necessarily better - as very often AI will leave you with a very high number of holy sites or encampments for which you have no real use.
    On earier difficulties, you will capture less infrastructure, but will have a lower investment in an army and your knights will be relevant longer. Cities you capture will often (mostly) have no districts yet so you can build what you want and not worry about population.

    Biggest benefit of playing deity is that you are likely to need way less gold to purchase all the great scientists in the end (due to faster era progressions) and that trading with AI may bring sizeable income.
     
  18. Sempronius

    Sempronius Chieftain

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    Just tried this over the weekend on Emperor level. It started out near perfect, I had Pol. Phil. by T50, and I took over my continent around T80, but I think I hit some limitations of the map, the difficulty, and I made some mistakes. I had tons of rainforest, but very little forest, so my chops were 50% as effective at best, but there were a ton of them, plus stone. I had little production in my capital/space port city which I did not catch early enough to fix (or move to another city). Money worked out well, though Big Ben took longer as well due to the resources. There were only 3 CS on my continent, so I had to embark scouts to find the rest. I ended up with a space port in T168 and finished in T184. I'm happy with the result, but I think I could have gotten that under T160 at least had I not made some mistakes along the way.
     
  19. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hi @Sempronius, that's great for a start. Mistakes are inevitable - but also great opportunity to learn.
    Its probably explained more in some of my posts in this thread, but virtually from Turn 1 I am on the lookout for the spaceport city (and if it can be capital - I start saving chops) and with equal importance a Big Ben city where I also save chops (sometimes too conservative though) - just to make sure I can definitely get the Big Ben up in time.
    Ideal timing is to get the spaceport and the Big Ben done virtually a turn (or a few) before almost all techs are completed. Then purchase all the GS in one turn, and finish the projects in the next. Of course, ideal rarely happens. Cheers.
     
  20. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Chieftain

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    It's amazing how much the map can work against you. I started a game today: emperor, standard-size, standard-speed, continents, Arabia. There are 5 of us on one continent with only 2 CS's; Amsterdam and a religious one. My build order was scout, builder, slinger, settler. I did not tell any of the AI's where my city was when we met. All 4 still settled in my face and I barely found a place for my settler. As soon as I finished Writing I placed my campus districts, but I only built one right away to boost State Workforce. My capital also got a commercial hub, and my expo built an encampment. Eventually (much later) they both built holy sites too.

    I beelined Stirrups (got there long before Feudalism because my culture sucks) only taking a few detours when a tech had a eureka and unlocked something important. I declared war on my neighbor Norway and took his capital and 2 or 3 other nice cities. None had campuses; all had holy sites and one had a harbor, so it will take forever to finish the campuses I've started them on. OTOH, my faith output is pretty good and I have 5 cities following my new religion.

    Everybody hates me. I'm going to have to kill them all, which will be a trick because I'm in last place for science; 20 techs behind the leader. They have aerodromes already. I have only recently discovered gunpowder and metal casting, and I have no navy. Russia has a whole continent to himself somewhere and a military larger than all the rest of us combined. (I haven't met the last civ yet, they might be dead)

    I haven't decided if I'm going to finish the game for the challenge, or just chalk it up as a loss.
    It will definitely not be a science victory :)
     
    Victoria and Hactar like this.

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