Strategy for Science Victory in 140 Turns or less

[Lily_Lancer]

It's amazing how much the map can work against you. I started a game today: emperor, standard-size, standard-speed, continents, Arabia. There are 5 of us on one continent with only 2 CS's; Amsterdam and a religious one. My build order was scout, builder, slinger, settler. I did not tell any of the AI's where my city was when we met. All 4 still settled in my face and I barely found a place for my settler. As soon as I finished Writing I placed my campus districts, but I only built one right away to boost State Workforce. My capital also got a commercial hub, and my expo built an encampment. Eventually (much later) they both built holy sites too.

I beelined Stirrups (got there long before Feudalism because my culture sucks) only taking a few detours when a tech had a eureka and unlocked something important. I declared war on my neighbor Norway and took his capital and 2 or 3 other nice cities. None had campuses; all had holy sites and one had a harbor, so it will take forever to finish the campuses I've started them on. OTOH, my faith output is pretty good and I have 5 cities following my new religion.

Everybody hates me. I'm going to have to kill them all, which will be a trick because I'm in last place for science; 20 techs behind the leader. They have aerodromes already. I have only recently discovered gunpowder and metal casting, and I have no navy. Russia has a whole continent to himself somewhere and a military larger than all the rest of us combined. (I haven't met the last civ yet, they might be dead)

I haven't decided if I'm going to finish the game for the challenge, or just chalk it up as a loss.
It will definitely not be a science victory

You can attach the initial save and I believe that an SV can be finished at most 160~170 turns .

 

[Victoria]

It's amazing how much the map can work against you.

I played a game yesterday trying out theatres as England in first 3 cities, I wanted it to be peaceful. On T15 Persia settled next to my capital. So I went to take Persia out and Rome was attacking them from the other side. I managed to take 3/4 cities and Rome took the last but then I had nowhere to go but through Rome who now had horsemen and legions in a rough terrain bottleneck. It was not an easy fight and Saladin took out Hattusa behind me while doing so.
My real problem was building theatres, big mistake and slowed me down too much. Once I got knights the AI is useless at predicting what I can do amd Rome fell, knights are just too easy. I still managed a T197 despite all of this, theatres building as non Greek seems silly.

 

[civtrader6]

I played a game yesterday trying out theatres as England in first 3 cities, I wanted it to be peaceful. On T15 Persia settled next to my capital. So I went to take Persia out and Rome was attacking them from the other side. I managed to take 3/4 cities and Rome took the last but then I had nowhere to go but through Rome who now had horsemen and legions in a rough terrain bottleneck. It was not an easy fight and Saladin took out Hattusa behind me while doing so.
My real problem was building theatres, big mistake and slowed me down too much. Once I got knights the AI is useless at predicting what I can do amd Rome fell, knights are just too easy. I still managed a T197 despite all of this, theatres building as non Greek seems silly.

Got you there - don't think theatres can work with aggressive victory - but maybe I just don't see how.
I attempted a peaceful SV with Rome three times (deity), and all three times pretty much gave up around T50 since the AI's forward-settled me so much I couldn't reasonably settle more than 4-5 cities. Gave up.

 

[Victoria]

Got you there - don't think theatres can work with aggressive victory - but maybe I just don't see how.
I attempted a peaceful SV with Rome three times (deity), and all three times pretty much gave up around T50 since the AI's forward-settled me so much I couldn't reasonably settle more than 4-5 cities. Gave up.

You really need the right map. I find huge variation in what happens. Also a bad resource start just has such bad nock on effects, especially on deity when the AI civs get techs so fast.

 

[zxcvbob]

You can attach the initial save and I believe that an SV can be finished at most 160~170 turns .

I don't have an initial save (that's something Civ 5 does that I really wish they would add to '6 -- a turn 0 autosave that doesn't go away) I will see if I can extract the random keys and regenerate it.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

Got you there - don't think theatres can work with aggressive victory - but maybe I just don't see how.
I attempted a peaceful SV with Rome three times (deity), and all three times pretty much gave up around T50 since the AI's forward-settled me so much I couldn't reasonably settle more than 4-5 cities. Gave up.

They may be selecting maps... A continent map with few neighbor but mass land is what you need in a peaceful SV... In most maps there is not so much land.

I think you can ask for initial saves about their "peaceful" victories, they may be picking one out of a dozen to do their victory. I don't think that applies for all deity maps in reasonable time (<180 I mean, that need space for 10 cities at least?)

I remember maybe Gotm 17 suits that purpose.

BTW if you play on huge earth map Australia and Brazil may suit. But if you start as Poland or Germany and want a "peaceful" SV, huh.

 

[Sempronius]

Hi @Sempronius, that's great for a start. Mistakes are inevitable - but also great opportunity to learn.
Its probably explained more in some of my posts in this thread, but virtually from Turn 1 I am on the lookout for the spaceport city (and if it can be capital - I start saving chops) and with equal importance a Big Ben city where I also save chops (sometimes too conservative though) - just to make sure I can definitely get the Big Ben up in time.
Ideal timing is to get the spaceport and the Big Ben done virtually a turn (or a few) before almost all techs are completed. Then purchase all the GS in one turn, and finish the projects in the next. Of course, ideal rarely happens. Cheers.

Thanks @civtrader6, I'm trying another game with China to see how much the extra builder charge could help. It's going well so far, at T44 and just got Pol.Phil and Currency. I thought I had the continent to myself with a few city states, but I just found Kyoto about 20 hexes to the East, so ramping up for a chariot rush now.

Side note: hard to believe I've been visiting this site for 14 years now, but as you can tell from my post count, I'm not the most active on the forums, mostly just download the GOTM saves.

 

[zxcvbob]

I don't have an initial save (that's something Civ 5 does that I really wish they would add to '6 -- a turn 0 autosave that doesn't go away) I will see if I can extract the random keys and regenerate it.

I ran the "seed pitter" utility and it says the game seed is 1326706572 and the map seed is 18. (that map seed is not right, it should be either 1326706571 or 1326706573, I'm not sure which) I will try them both and see which looks right, and upload the save file.

[several hours later] I reconstructed the game and saved it. Started playing just to make sure it's the same. I played it the same way (as far as I remember) except for one little difference in my build order -- scout, builder, settler, slinger instead or scout builder slinger settler. So I got me second city up a couple of turns quicker, and the AI's didn't forward settle me as much so I managed to found a third city in a good location (I could have settled 2 more but they would be awful cities not worth antagonizing my neighbors with) I got all 3 campuses and a commercial district placed before I finished any of them, and still finished building one district in time to boost State Workforce. Pedro denounced me just as I was starting to feel froggy, and Rio was closeby and in open terrain. I was going to declare a formal war by myself, but I paid Harald to join me. I captured Rio and one other big city, then took a third in the peace settlement. By now all my cities except one Brazilian one had holy sites, so I founded my religion with the prophet that had been cooling his heels for the past 50 turns or so.

I'm still behind in science, but catching up very rapidly. (I have a lot of techs like Sailing that will take just one turn to complete.) I will attach the starting save file tomorrow; probably tomorrow night but I'll try to doit before I go to work in the morning. I can't believe how different it's playing out. I need to go back and make sure both passes at the game really are the same difficulty level.

 

[Wandering_Dandelion]

I played a game yesterday trying out theatres as England in first 3 cities, I wanted it to be peaceful. On T15 Persia settled next to my capital. So I went to take Persia out and Rome was attacking them from the other side. I managed to take 3/4 cities and Rome took the last but then I had nowhere to go but through Rome who now had horsemen and legions in a rough terrain bottleneck. It was not an easy fight and Saladin took out Hattusa behind me while doing so.
My real problem was building theatres, big mistake and slowed me down too much. Once I got knights the AI is useless at predicting what I can do amd Rome fell, knights are just too easy. I still managed a T197 despite all of this, theatres building as non Greek seems silly.

The theatre-first is only applicable to peaceful SV. In fact, it was not easy to master the way. I firstly put forward it in May, but until now, Chinese players who can master it are numbered. However, it is undeniable that the record of peaceful SV in China was created by theaters method. To master it, learning how to win the game peacefully, including how to deal with diplomacy, where to found the city and many other aspects, is necessary.

 

[Victoria]

The theatre-first is only applicable to peaceful SV.

Sure, my intention was just to get a feel for it peacefully but when someone badly forward settles you everything changes. I do remember a comment saying it works well for Peri, and Victoria is quite different.
I am more of a mechanics person than a short victory so it is about understanding more than T170.

 

[zxcvbob]

@Lily_Lancer: Here's the initial save that I reconstructed. I will be really impressed if you can win it in less than 200 turns. But look at my previous (2:01 AM) post if you haven't seen it; I can't believe such a minor change in my build order made such a huge difference in the game. Also I found a scientific CS that either I somehow missed last time or they were already dead when I explored that part of the continent (which I did pretty early) and that really helps.

 

[Lily_Lancer]

@Lily_Lancer: Here's the initial save that I reconstructed. I will be really impressed if you can win it in less than 200 turns. But look at my previous (2:01 AM) post if you haven't seen it; I can't believe such a minor change in my build order made such a huge difference in the game. Also I found a scientific CS that either I somehow missed last time or they were already dead when I explored that part of the continent (which I did pretty early) and that really helps.

A quick 2nd city helps a lot. That's why I always go for builder-settler sequence. The scout and the slinger slows you very much.

Sure, my intention was just to get a feel for it peacefully but when someone badly forward settles you everything changes. I do remember a comment saying it works well for Peri, and Victoria is quite different.
I am more of a mechanics person than a short victory so it is about understanding more than T170.

Maybe only for unique theaters. As Greece you obviously needs theatre, but as England you just need to spam RND.

Another option is Japan, which receives 100% bonus when constructing theaters. Civs other than these 2 shall not be useful.

They seem to bland their strategy to hide the most important part( here one main point is that Greece have a unique theatre instead of "building 3 theaters work", another main point is that you need a map with mass, undisturbed land for peaceful victory, which only occurs 1 among a dozen games instead of working for every map). I don't know if they try to hide it to "keep secret", or just simply don't know the main point.

Even if the two serious constraints are fulfilled, their victory time is still not good. So in fact I don't find a lot of interesting parts from it. Also you need to select map before playing peaceful SV, which is what I never want to do. I think map selection is an exploit.

 

[Victoria]

as England you just need to spam RND

here one main point is that Greece have a unique theatre

And extra envoys when they build each.

 

[zxcvbob]

A quick 2nd city helps a lot. That's why I always go for builder-settler sequence. The scout and the slinger slows you very much.

I have always heard that early scouting is the most important thing. I generally go scout->monument or monument->scout. Even a builder this early is new to me. (maybe that's why I suck at this game and can't move beyond emperor level)

 

[Lily_Lancer]

I have always heard that early scouting is the most important thing. I generally go scout->monument or monument->scout. Even a builder this early is new to me. (maybe that's why I suck at this game and can't move beyond emperor level)

In Civ5, yes, since scout cost 25 and builder 70 settler 106
In Civ6, no, since scout cost 30 while builder(1st) 50 settler(1st) 80

This is simple math calculation. A builder and a scout do almost the same in Civ5 and Civ6, but the cost ratio changed a lot. Early scouting is valuable, but no that valuable.

 

[zxcvbob]

I finished that Arabia game last night. Science victory in 300 turns . Twenty of that was building the spaceport even with lots of chops and harvesting every stone within 3 tiles. I bought all 4 space race scientists and engineers with faith; one of them cost over 10000. I didn't need all 4, but I wanted to keep Kongo from getting any.

One of the spots where I said I could have settled another city but it would be awful; I did settle it later and it was a good one; had oil and uranium and I don't remember but I think aluminum. And it had a unique luxury (whales) in the 3-ring.

I may play it one more time and spam settlers as fast as I can; see if I can get at least 5 cities before I get boxed in, and then settle a few on another continent.

 

[Sempronius]

@civtrader6, where do you normally squeeze in the techs for embarking your army? I seem to be delaying other techs if I go for them early, or have my army sitting on the beach for a turn or two if I wait until later.

 

[ackoman]

Hi

What do you mean by "Hard research"?

Thanks,
Ackoman

 

[bonafide11]

I’m curious if R&F has slowed down the pace of these crazy fast science victories? I’m not good enough to do them yet, but since research has been slowed a bit I’m wondering if they take longer now.

 

[Victoria]

I’m curious if R&F has slowed down the pace of these crazy fast science victories? I’m not good enough to do them yet, but since research has been slowed a bit I’m wondering if they take longer now.

Sort of. There has been quite a large change.
God of the harvest has become stronger which combined with monumentality makes up for most of the shortfall but still a bit longer. Magnus is indispensable and the Kwila can be quite strong if usable.
The end game is slower with it not really being possible to shoot all rockets in a turn and that’s probably the added delay.
Very rough I guess is 10-20 turns slower