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Strategy for Science Victory in 140 Turns or less

Discussion in 'Civ6 - Strategy & Tips' started by civtrader6, Oct 15, 2017.

  1. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    1: If you can't get goddess of harvest of course you shall choose god of forge.
    2: You army is a little bit short in size. Shall have at least 10, It is also weird that you don't have Knights at T56, you're not even researching on it.
    3: From your screenshot it is certain that you don't build Ziggurauts, which is the key strength of Sumeria.
    4: Does Rome or Macedon Suzerain any city states? If so you shall declare on them to get the defensive pact eureka. It is weird that Macedon is green to you.
    5: Why don't you know the capital, or any city, of Rome and Macedon?
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  2. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    When should I have Knights? In my first attempt I tried timing stirrups with feudalism so it was T75 when I got it. How many warcarts should I have before declaring war?
    Rome is a Suzerain of Zainzibar. I wasn't aware that Ziggurauts were that strong. And I'm bad at scouting, its at Jerusalem.
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    1: For Sumeria shall be T60.(more precisely, T57~63)
    Stirrup with Mercanaries shall be at T65~70, at the worst situation. (e.g. isolated start, with the closest civ being 15 tiles away and you have multiple barb camps around, one of my games look like this and I got mercanaries with stirrup at T68, also with a GG and 12 warcarts, as well as enough upgrade money(around 1,200) and iron.)

    2: You declare war when you have 3 or so warcart, but you shall continue building them. Having only 6 seems to be T36 instead of T56.
    3: When you meet a civ you can have an option to exchange capital or visit its city, so you at least know one of its cities.
    4: You shall not start with scouts. Only ~5% times a scout opening is under consideration. (This does not mean you shall build scout at 5% times, just means it's one of the proper options at these times)
    5: Why don't you declare on Rome???
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  4. DanaLea

    DanaLea Chieftain Supporter

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    I never get the "option". I get whatever the AI chooses. Seems that if their scout and my scout meet somewhere out in the wilds, we exchange capitals location. But if their scout runs across one of my cities, I get no info on them and have no clue where their cites are until I find them myself. And that's including sending them a delegation (which is weird, where did I send it?! LOL)
     
  5. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    @i_imperator

    So just had a look at your screenshots - seems that the problem is in Thebes (very frustrating city placement by Egypt) - which effectively cuts off the best route, and also the one I used to go in.
    Another thing I notice is that you do not have open borders with Egypt. I did - the moment we've met I bought open borders for lump gold (15-20). This allowed me to get all troops in and hit at the same time.

    Now, Lily advocates having 10 chariots - I think i've built a total of 9. But only 4 (+2 that joined later and got no action) actually went on to conquer Egypt.

    As for when to have knights - T60 is possible if you follow the quick tech progression. This is also by far the best progression when it comes to keeping down district placement costs so:
    {Mining / Animal Husbandry / Pottery} in some order.
    {Archery / Writing} -> {Currency}
    {Bronze Working } need it at least here to see where iron is and secure a mine timely.
    {Horseback Riding} -> Stirrups.

    And on the civic side
    {...Political Philosophy} -> {Games and Recreations} -> {Defensive Tactics} -> {Feudalism}

    I try to stay close to this order but rarely follow it to a T. Usually I will squeeze in at least Masonry. And very often I will delay feudalism a bit - so as to have a very very large wave of builders - and let my treasury fill up to get the money for upgrades.

    As for the timing - in this particular game - I got stirrups around T70 and mercenaries soon after - and then went after Alexander. Egypt was attacked around T60 (after getting all my army in place).

    As for the pantheon - Godess of the Harvest is preferred. With this said - I didn't have the chance to grab it in my last 5-10 games.
    God of the Forge is very powerful - IF you get to choose your pantheon very early and still need to build the bulk of your army.
    If it comes later - then I don't think God of the Forge gives you much of an edge - so I usually go for the Divine Spark.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
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  6. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    God of forge not only enhance your building power, but also provide a chance with overflow. Especially 125% overflow for seaside cities. So it is more powerful than just a 20% reduction of production for early armies. Also early production is powerful, help quick snowballing.

    Not sure how much can divine spark give in a T140 SV, maybe ~1,000 GS point? I think maybe less than appeal +1 faith?(Which can give ~10,000 faith=~1,300GS point?) Anyway these are of the same level, a little fraction of goddess of harvest.
     
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  7. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Yeah, both are just a fraction.
    I rarely plant seaside cities and go with the galley overflow - although its rather powerful - and in the Norway GoTM i used this exact approach.
    As for the Divine Spark, the benefits that can be squeezed (again situational) - if you capture (or will soon capture) a bunch of theater squares - then it significantly speeds up a couple of great writers - which is a good culture boost. Other than that - it pretty much results in a number of superfluous great scientists - as you will likely already boost or surpass the techs . However, one strategy around this to beeline for satellites after the spaceport - and if you're lucky - push the game era.
     
  8. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Chieftain

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    I don't quite understand this. Player is always the most advanced, so game era is decided by AI.(GP era is >50% civ's era+1)
     
  9. civtrader6

    civtrader6 Chieftain

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    Hmmm, I actually thought its the average across civs - and by pushing early information era would move the counter - and then probably fell victim to confirmation bias. In that case, not much benefits from the divine spark after all.
     
  10. DanaLea

    DanaLea Chieftain Supporter

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    What do you mean overflow?
     
  11. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    The God of the Forge bonus gets applied to your next build when you have overflow cogs. If you're making 10 cogs per turn and have a warrior 1 cog from completion then you get 9 cogs of overflow that go into the next build, but that overflow also gets any % modifiers you might have. So if you've got Agoge and God of the Forge going you'll get +75% on the overflow which in my example would be ~15.8 cogs. Abusing this mechanic is pretty much the secret to getting your infrastructure built quickly.
     
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  12. DanaLea

    DanaLea Chieftain Supporter

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    And this doesn't happen without this pantheon? So if I have, say river goddess, and I'm one cog away and I produce 10 cogs, I lost the other nine, right?
     
  13. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    You'd still get the 9, but the % modifiers can get quite large, as any and all modifiers you have in play can give a boost. If you chop with a turn or two left to go all of overflow created by the chop gets the multipliers, too, so you can create some crazy production out of thin air by timing everything up right.
     
  14. DanaLea

    DanaLea Chieftain Supporter

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    Then I'm confused. I've never seen any overflow. Every time I've ever started to produce something, the cog counter at the top of the screen is at zero. And I've accidentally chopped rainforest or forest before choosing a new thing to build, and the chopped production get's wasted. So, what's up with that?
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    This no longer works science last patch I believe.

    I am not convinced by this. Yes you are lessening you techs but not really your civics which you typically have more of. Early game placement is more reliant on civic progression with this strategy

    This also gives 10x current science output in culture I believe. It can be very enlightening.

    So you chop in and then change production to something new, it shows 0 because the turn has not progressed (annoying though), on the next turn if you look, the production has been updated and is more than the city produced.

    I am just playing playing around with the Aztecs in a game where I am going to try 4-5 spaceport in wooded areas. With Hong Kong and Democracy a 50% chop and at 300/chop with just one project I should not have to worry about gold or GS but will look for Goddard in the modern era.... what do you think? Specific to Aztecs because of cheap spaceport creation.
    Lots of 1 charge workers chop in 1 turn.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  16. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    Will you have enough spies to protect all those space sports?
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Don't build the spaceport until you need it. It just takes 5 worker charges, and if they were all 1 charge workers you can do that in a turn ... but in reality having a spy ready on that turn and then having to spend time moving to the the city and sabotaging.... no chance 100% safe.

    I just like the idea of not having to mess around with money and pushing era's/scientists... and no big ben , great zim or eiffel
    The last 3 projects are only 1650 production so 6 worker charges should do it in each. Save a charge on each worker and do it all on one turn. You do need 6 forests though.
    I'm not going to have time to try for a few days but working on the GOTM28 with it. Definitely below 140 but it is a near perfect example game to try.
     
    Last edited: Dec 18, 2017
  18. i_imperator

    i_imperator Imperator

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    I followed the Stirrups guide, was able to conquer Egypt, declared early T45, once I took that annoying city and with some careful movement I had them conquered by turn 50. Got Stirrups/Feudalism T69. The final result was a T224 victory, I feel the spaceport really slowed me down, not sure how I can improve on this. My tech progression and GS was much smoother this time. I tried building big ben but without the GE I was unable to.

    I think I will try monty for the Sub 200 attempt, I've played this sumeria map to death at this point. I will say god of the forge made huge difference in the war timings this time. Persia and Kongo were dead at T45
     

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  19. stinkubus

    stinkubus Chieftain

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    Yeah, God of the Forge is awesome and since the previous patch introduced the new pantheons it's relatively easy to get as Goddess of the Harvest and the one that gives faith according to the appeal of your tiles always seem to go first.
     
  20. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    When around T80 you should be looking for good places for a spaceport and other such edifices.
    Sure you need say 4 chops to finish your projects but just find a heavily wooded place and chop it all down bar 4 trees to build your spaceport.
    If you cannot find a place with enough trees then you know you have to beeline it early enough to complete it by the time you can get all your tech to the main projects.
    Timing enough gold and science and GP possibility with the availability of a spaceport is what it is all about. If one thing gets in the way, that's what you have to improve.

    Good starting culture beget early knights which beget great science which beget sub 200 Victory. This is the starting mantra with the finer points being around reducing that further.
    To me the first step is understanding what good starting culture means.
     
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