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Strategy objectives- Long term

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Jimmy369, Jan 8, 2009.

  1. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I would not be too concerned about other teams getting it - Every other team must have at least one city with the AP religion in order for the AP victory to be enabled. No one else is close.

    See previous comments on waiting until after SM to start construction - unless we can work out something with MS. Anyone want to draft up a personal email to send Husch. I'd rather send to him directly than to their entire team - they may be leaky.
     
  2. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    1st message- "Husch- we would like to discuss a proposal with you of a sensitive nature. Could we send you a private message that you would agree not to share with the other teams?"

    2nd message talking points:

    1. CAV or SANCTA will win the game as things stand now. Right now SANCTA is winning.
    2. The possibility of your team winning at this point is very remote.
    3. There is a way that we can win the game with your help, making you the 2nd place winner.
    4. This would conclude this MTDG game sooner.
    5. CAV and SANCTA would be greatly surprised by this unexpected victory of the lesser teams.

    We need to remember that english is not Husch's first language so we need to craft the note with care.
     
  3. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Just side note - gifting cities would allow Sancta, Cav or MS to remove their Confu contamination.

    It would be crippling - but this idea would need to be thought through.
     
  4. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    I think that 1st message makes sense. In talking point two we should indicate that it is also unlikely that we will win.
     
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    I also think that we have a good chance getting a one man team like HusCh to go along with the religious victory idea.

    As far as others getting the Apostolic Palace goes, remember that we got the SoZ partly to just keep SANCTA from getting it, even after we determined that it was of little benefit to us. SANCTA might do the same with Apostolic Palace. I would not bank to heavily on this little gambit of ours being a surprise to them. SANCTA seems to have an uncanny ability to read our minds, anticipate our moves, and counter us at every turn. If we are going to do this, I think we are better off starting now and keeping it as quiet as possible. Are we sure every civ has Confu contamination? We aren't contaminated by anyones religion...
     
  6. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    You need to be running a state religion to even build the AP.
     
  7. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    Ah yeah, I'm afraid you're right there. SANCTA would be able to defeat our plan with ease. All they would need to do is to gift their confu cities to Saturn or vice versa and our plan is bust.

    It's a nice idea but I'm afraid this is just not going to work against human players :(
     
  8. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Gifting cities still jacks up Sancta's economy. Which is beneficial to us.

    They may prefer losing cleanly due to an exploit of the AP vs. a long slow loss after destroying their economy.

    We have plenty of time to act on this. I'd rather wait until confu has spread more.
     
  9. Kaleb

    Kaleb Deity

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    But they only need to gift one city to screw us over, right? There's only one SANCTA city with confu right now.
     
  10. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    :lol:That's never stopped us from trying something before has it?!?;) Seriously though, if SANCTA gifts Phoenix to Saturn it will lose all its culture and culture making improvements. That in and of itself is a reason to build Apostolic Palace.

    Phoenix is squeezing Petro. It would be huge if they had to tank Phoenix's culture to stop an Apostolic win.:goodjob: We might even be able to culture flip it with the Double Holy city Pavlodar nearby.:eek:

    Also, I bet we would be able to get one religious victory vote in before they took the drastic city gifting step. Remember how reluctant Cavalieros was to gift cities?

    They (SANCTA) might reason... "Hmmm Silly Kaz noobs... Don't they know you need two teams to vote for Apostolic win... hah ha, oh wait why did MS??? Nooo!!!" :goodjob: Remember, they have no respect for us... they might not believe we could pull it off.

    We could also raise a huge stink in the UN about obvious city gifting to avoid an Apostolic Palace win. If SANCTA does it, we could declare that it's an unfair exploit that should be banned and demand a reload.
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    SANCTA already has Confu in Phoenix Mountain, they could switch to Confu at any time. They also could discover Islam at any time. Another reason to take it from them...
    The best time to go for Religious victory is when We have a near monopoly on Confu. I.E. right now. The longer we wait, the more Confu votes that Saturn and SANCTA get. We only need them to have one Confu city for this to work. We already have our Confu votes maxed out (once Baikonur gets Confu). Waiting only hurts us because it dilutes our Canfu monopoly.
     
  12. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    It is 2 cities - the most recent screen shot shows copper kettle also has confu. Gifting away that city would be devastating.
     
  13. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    AP is a fun thought but in all honestly guys we can't afford to keep chasing these pipe dreams one after another. We already put a bunch of beakers into universities and now oxford- meanwhile our military isnt growing. So lets get back to reality and actually focus on a realistic goal.
     
  14. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Agreed - I brought it up as an interesting possibility. We should broach the idea with MS, but realistically we should plan on paying the game as it is.
     
  15. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    Bahh... Never mind. :mad: Its obvious that this argument is a lost cause, and I'm weary of this debate. I still think we could do both at the same time but whatever... On to the next fight :goodjob:
     
  16. mikotian

    mikotian Warlord

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    wait, I don't understand... why can't we go for a religious victory? Let's face it we are getting owned in a conventional fight. I for one would rather pull at this particular straw right now, even if it had a small chance of success.

    Hell, I'd rather have MS win than face a slow death at the hands of Sancta, frankly.
     
  17. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

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    Well, I agree the religious idea is interesting but trying for it may also cause SANCTA to invade us again. That may end the game quickly for us but would also probably help SANCTA win.
     
  18. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

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    Lets send a message to MS to see if it is even possible. That is the 1st step.

    Then we would need someone to do a lot of game testing to determine the exact timing we would need for completing the AP. I assume that, like the UN, the AP generate and election option every x number of turns. We would need to time it so that we win the 1st election (determining who controls the AP) with over 75% of the vote. This would indicate we just built the AP for the hammer bonus and to cause trouble by holding votes on trade embargoes etc. And would indicate that it was impossible for us to win an AP victory.

    Then the turn before the next election (or on the same turn depending on how the mechanics work) MS and us settle several confu missionaries (we can each only have 3 at a time) in MS cities to convert the rest of MS’s cities.

    We also need to do some math to determine how the vote will play out. For example it may be necessary for MS to switch to confu as their state religion in order to get the x2 votes. However, if this is the case when does the x2 voting take effect. Could we start the election and then they switch religion or would they have to have the religion before we start the election.

    Once the other teams knew what was afoot they could try to gift cities to throw off the AP win conditions. We need to test to see how this would play out in test games. For example all conditions are met and we start the election. We vote, MS votes, Sancta figures out what is going on and they gift a city to Saturn (victory conditions are no longer met). Does the election go through or not? The easiest way to prevent this would be to get confu to spread to capital cities which can’t be gifted. We can do this to Team Cav – but not Sancta / Saturn.

    Just starting to build the AP without planning it out is a horrible idea.
     
  19. mikotian

    mikotian Warlord

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    sounds like a good idea Damnrunner. And when has threat of Sancta invasion ever stopped us? Besides, it's easier to defend than attack, especially as we have superior technology to Sancta right now. I welcome their stack into our lands and prepare to greet them with a nice fat barrage from our catapults!

    If we go AP, then we must build a defensive army at the same time: cats, muskets, knights, xbows or eles.
     
  20. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

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    So I think we need to do the leg work to refine our plan to attack SANCTA. CAV seems to be sticking to the earlier plan generally which is fine. We just need to adjust the timeline in coordination with them. Otherwise the whole thing will turn into a disorganized disaster.

    We are pretty much in agreement to go after SANCTA when we have cannons and redcoats right? So we need to figure out a tenative turn for when we attack and then backwards plan builds, civic switches, etc.

    Without concrete planning we will just be winging it turn to turn which would be hugely inefficient. For example- how many knights do we need? Should we build more or focus on units that will upgrade to redcoats and cannons? I think upgradeable units makes alot more sense because we are waiting for rifling to attack. Knight were part of the old cannon plan.
     

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