1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Strategy Objectives - Mid Term

Discussion in 'Team Kazakhstan' started by Provolution, Dec 10, 2008.

  1. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Strategy Objectives - Mid Term

    I figured we needed a thread for discussing strategies beyond the next technology or the first 50 turns, as we need to decide on some beeline and the quickest way to get to universities, as well as which wonder (-s) to get.

    Please check the 50 turn strategy thread to see the discussion there, and bring it over here.
     
  2. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,608
    I think we need to come up with a plan for a religion and a plan to get our great people going. The Mad Scientists will probably sweep the first 3 religions to prevent another team from founding them.

    We have a natural advantage with bulbing, but right now we aren't going for early generation of great person points. This means we are going to have to compete for Christianity and Confucianism (the other teams are going to be gunning for them- expect an oracle slingshot to CoL by SANCTA for example).

    We can play a perfect game and do everything right using conventional strategies but still fall behind as the other teams leverage their traits...
     
  3. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    I think we should beeline straight for COL, via writing and currency, and use the gold to get us there (That means we need to settle where Kaleb initially proposed). This also means we delay Bronze Working until we get there. I would ideally save forest chops till we get math, as we gain more hammers doing so.
     
  4. damnrunner

    damnrunner Emperor

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,986
    I generally find religion to be overrated. Other civs are better suited to grab the early religions and trying tograb one should not be a priority. Their is a good cahnce we will be beat to it anyway and then we have a lot of tech that is fairly useless. The benefits of a religion are far smaller than the benefit of getting better technologies. Later on Philosophy (Taoism) should be our target religion.

    Going for COL 1st is a bad idea - when the oracle is built I suspect they will grab COL.

    My thoughts on what to do next. Research Animal Husbandry. Then writing or masonry. Found two cities - one by gold one by either copper or horses. One city should get a library and run 2 scientists in order to start putting our philo trait to use. The 12 GPP will give a GS very fast and building an early academy will be a huge benefit.

    Early wonder - pyramids. This would be a great to get. But requires masonry which is not the most useful of techs. Some game testing on how early we can get them would be good - as would the potential trade offs.

    My thoughts on other techs to focus on are roads/pottery/iron.
     
  5. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    I would still go for Shwedagon Paya, as we got the gold to double the production speed. We have not got any stone or marble yet. Also, The Oracle gambit is one of many options, but not a given. Paya would also give us pacifism, along with other religious civics, not to mention GP points. If I see stone/marble in our lands, I may be persuaded to consider pyramids.

    Metal Casting is also an option, as it gives Forge, that with gold adds another happiness point, something to think about.

    Iron is not that urgent anyways, as it stands. Writing and Currency with CoL makes perfect sense in the long road towards education, which should be a key goal.
     
  6. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Beat me to thread creation again Provolution. :rolleyes:

    We cannot afford to neglect bronze working. It is a neccessary tech for numerous reasons. Bolkonski would probably have a seizure if the team decided not to get BW.:lol:

    If we see stone or marble I think we should definitely make an early wonder, preference being the pyramids. Otherwise it is not worth it to waste hammers on wonders right now.

    Religion is very important. It allows you to have happier cities for cheaper. If you found the religion and get a great prophet, we would get a large boost to gold which allows us to keep our tech rate higher. I do not think we could get CoL if we went currency because it is far cheaper to get to CoL from the mysticism-priesthood route. I would recommend BW-Pottery-Writing- Mysticism-Meditiation-Priesthood-CoL. This save at least 200 beakers over the currency route.
     
  7. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    I think people here are purposely ignoring Paya (harder to spell...), but it is like the pyramids, just with religion in place of government. Gold is the resource doubling its production. Hello? Is this a waste of resources? I dont think so. Paya is an underestimated wonder, and it fits our overall strategy, as well as allows us flexibility. Everyone expects oracle gambit or pyramids, but very few expect the Paya.

    I still think we should get writing and currency, due to the gold boost we will get. The gold resource, like it or not, should impact our strategy, its the only key resource beyond food going for us now.
     
  8. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Paya is definitely one we want to go for. The pyramids if we can get stone though is very good as well. If we had both.... Currency would be nice but is it better than a religion that would be the choice. As I said earlier, Getting currency is at least 200 beakers more expensive.
     
  9. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Maybe we should run a non-religious strategy until Taoism (Philosophy), and head straight for Aesthetics and metal casting. The forge will give us another happiness for the gold, so having the Paya, and later Taoism from Philosophy, could be another angle. However, we got so many plains, and the only way to irrigate inland plains in the center is to have Civil Service, which again requires CoL... But we can go for Aesthetics, and time it with us connecting the gold to City 2 as well as being done with the first 1-2 builds in that city, is that a plan?
     
  10. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Forges also give us engineers and great builder points which we can use to rush the Pyramids if we don't have stone. Metal casting would be available after we got pottery and Bronze, both techs I think we need. Metal casting is the most expensive tech in its time period at 450 beakers. We might lose out on some needed techs if we beeline Metal casting. Splitting it up and going for the Paya at the same time might allow us to get more science beakers though.
     
  11. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Then Paya first, then Metal Casting, that would allow us to build the wonder in city 2, and cap it with the positive effects of metal casting right after, to get forge and that added happiness bonus for gold.
     
  12. Jimmy369

    Jimmy369 Warlord

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2008
    Messages:
    139
    Location:
    Manitoba
    Sounds good. Now to let the game progress as far as our minds have. It would be nice to hear someone else suggest a plan.
     
  13. donsig

    donsig Low level intermediary

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2001
    Messages:
    12,894
    Location:
    Rochester, NY
    I do not have BtS so I'm unfamiliar with this gold based wonder. It sounds interesting but I think it's too early to set our minds now.
     
  14. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Read up on the BTS wonders in the general page, Donsig, Civfanatics got a proper intro there. the gold based Paya is basically the Pyramids, but for for religious, not government civics.
     
  15. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,124
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    I don't think 1 team will sweep 3 religions...it would be inefficient of them and they would be left behind in development.

    I feel 3 teams will get the first 3 religions...and Oracle will propably get CoL...

    So that leaves us with the following options.

    1. go after an early religion...not a bad idea if we go for the north forest
    2. get Oracle and CoL....
    3. bulb Philosophy...this is tricky as we need alphabet first
    4. get a prophet wonder and bulb theology (temple of Artemis comes to mind if we don't get oracle...it gives 3 prophet and 2 merchant points...and a merchant would not be bad)
     
  16. jkpsmp1

    jkpsmp1 Chieftain

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2004
    Messages:
    54
    I ran a simulation of settling on the northern forest and going for the Oracle. I had the Oracle built by turn 60. See the screen shot below of turn 60 - the settling of the third city was in the best spot that was on the sample map that I have - it doesn't help or hurt.

    Techs - BW - Wheel - Pottery - Myst - Med - Priest - AH - Writing - CoL (from Oracle) - one turn from Masonry

    Builds -(as I remember) - Work Boat - Warrior - Settler - Worker - Warrior - Work Boat - Warrior - Oracle

    You can see the improvements I have made on the screenshot. Any suggestions for improvements are welcome.

    Jeff
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    Good initiative Jeff. However, I do not support the traditional Oracle/CoL gambit, I would prefer a much more organic, and less of a gamble (gambit) strategy. Writing, Currency and CoL would be a more sober and strategic way to go, as we got numerous cottages to be built, as well as new trade routes to be opened, as well as libraries and market places
     
  18. cav scout

    cav scout The Continuum

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2008
    Messages:
    2,608
    I think if we go with Jeff's plan we can beat the other teams to Oracle. We have the hammers and chops available in our capital and the gold up north can fuel the research for the needed techs.

    Yes it is a well know slingshot, but for good reason. The benefits are substantial- I say we go for it!
     
  19. Provolution

    Provolution Sage of Quatronia

    Joined:
    Jul 21, 2004
    Messages:
    10,102
    Location:
    London
    I say we have a technology poll right before Bronze Working is completely researched, and that will help settle the matter.
     
  20. Indiansmoke

    Indiansmoke Deity

    Joined:
    Dec 12, 2006
    Messages:
    4,124
    Location:
    Athens, Greece
    I think we can go for it...and if we lose it then we gain some cash to accelerate research..

    I like your plan..mine was with second settler from capital before Oracle...but yours seems better...I will do some further testing
     

Share This Page