Discussion in 'RFC mod-mod: Classical World' started by srpt, Jul 29, 2013.
discuss strategy here
long post describing my Seleucids victory follows! Playing with them is perhaps one of the most fun challenges you will meet in this mod, as you compete Rome in warmongering while you face a really poor economy! But you will definitely fell like Alexander the Great after achieving a victory with them!
Firstly, set tech research to horticulture and all cities except Babylon build wealth; Babylon will build a fairground first, then a textile factory, then a Royal mint
Send a phalaginte to India and conquer 2 cities you will find less guarded. They can easily kill spearmen but not javelins. Gift those 2 cities to the Sungas and you will get 6 elephants! Voila, the game is now easier
Exchange techs with the Indians now that you are friends with them, and send your units to Jerusalem.
The other starting units will attack the following cities with the following order : Tyros -> Antiocheia -> Tarsos -> Ancyra -> Ephesos -> Byzantium -> Pella -> Athens. Grab mercenaries you need only; I Hired a horse archer and a heavy spearman.
I conquered the Antigonids and Greece by 272 BC with my 2 starting elephants (combat 1 both), a mercenary horse archer (combat 1, shock and flanking 1 upgrades) and my other phalangite (city raider 1+2). I only lost a mercenary heavy spearman. By that time my 6 elephants arrived from India outside of Jerusalem and were ready to unleash doom at the poor Egyptians!
Send the slaves you captured from this expedition back to Mesopotamia and start building farms and cottages around Babylon and Seleucia.
Egypt fell at 255 BC and 1st UHV checked OK, meanwhile I had declared war on the Romans when they spawned, so they couldn’t surprise me later. I Had stationed my 2 starting elephants at Pella and I send there my 1st Great General to give them xp to face the Roman legions. I also hired a level 5 archer who would keep them away from attacking Pella or Athens. The legions appeared the turn I destroyed the Egyptians and promoted my elephants to shock & combat 2.
Using smart maneuvers, I destroyed Apuleia, Milan and Rome by 212 BC. I got lots of gold which is useful now that your economy is collapsing. Tech rate was at 0% by the time I had conquered Egypt. After the destruction of Rome I offered them Peace and get all their remaining gold. Poor Romans, it will take them centuries to recover!
Meanwhile I had declared war to the Nubians, using two elephants, and because they had longbowmen I was only pillaging improvements for gold. Then some barbarian attacked them and when their capital was weak, I destroyed it to get the gold. Then again I offered them peace for the remaining gold.
I fired every mercenary I had and focused on building up my economy, thankfully the Bactrians appeared and flipped a city! This means less expenses! Also since I got tons of slaves after destroying so many cities, some of them were used to improve the land in Greece and Egypt, and some joined cities (cities produce more wealth with slaves settled in).
These 2 Elephants who returned victorious from nubia, were sent to Tyros, alongside a starting phalagite to wait for the Maccabees to spawn.
By now, Babylon should be close to finishing the Royal mint, and have farms and cottages around her, this will boost your economy and you will be finally able to switch the tech rate to 10% ! Build a market also to improve her gold output even more, and then let her build wealth, with these you can now let 2 other cities that already build wealth, build fairgrounds and textile factories. And like this, step by step you must build these in other cities. When you reach a certain level of gold profit, your greatest cities must build your UB and start producing your UU. You are going to need them to face the Parthians.
My second Great General spawned while fighting the Maccabees and I used him to upgrade an elephant to have bonus vs missile cavalry (and of course combat + 100% exp gain).
Then the Parthians spawned and they flipped Persepolis and captured Epiphaneia. I used my gold reserves and hired all mercenaries available each turn. Soon I re-conquered Epiphaneia and took Arbela from them. My army was marching towards their capital; Persepolis will fall last.
After this successful campaign against the Parthians I still had some xp to gain to produce a 3rd Great General, so I declared war to the Pontus. Soon and after destroying the Pontus and some more barbarians I got my last Great General and won the game!
Enjoy your ‘Alexander the Great title’
good report. keep em coming.
what's the source for Epiphaneia? wiki says the city was called Agbatana by Aeschylus and Herodotus.
Arabia Military Strategy:
1. Secure Coastal Levant if not already done / eliminate remaining Byz threat there.
2. Secure Mesopotamia (this should collapse Sassanids)
3. do a 180 and go for Egypt because Numidia is so far away from the Levant that if you don't beeline for it RIGHT AWAY you will run out of time.
4. Send first batch of new units west to Africa, then second batch East to Arachosia, Bactria etc. There shouldn't be any resistance there.
Post Conquest-UHV Strategy:
1. Invade Anatolia and take out Byz. They are a major tech competitor and getting them out of the way will help the tech UHV and the % Islam UHV.
2. Through Constantinople try sending missionaries to the Europeans if they'll let you in. If not, you may have to conquer Europe.
Also consider invading India to spread Islam even further.
Remember to purge the filthy infidels because it contributes to your piety and gets rid of unhappiness.
Furthermore, your first tech should be Bulk Trade as the additional trade routes are an immense help to your tech rate.
New post for new civ strategy:
It is possible to conquer Berenike and Thebes from the Egyptians with only the starting units, if one commits all units but one spearman to the offensive. Wait a few turns, so Egypt can lose some military to the Seleucids and/or exploration, and attack. I was able to get 2 cities, 150 gold from city capture, and half a tech (Alphabet) in a peace treaty. This contributes 2 more sources of gold too!
Use Tungul for production and Medewi for commerce and/or great people. Use whatever Egyptian cities you can get your hands on to help build your economy.
Roman Empire (Emperor):
1. Settle Rome and then Neapolis.
2. Still in first turn: Load your galley and instantly go for Carthage. Start with the islands and then go directly for the capital (e.g. from Caralis you can reach Carthage in one turn) Counter Hannibal's Army with all mercenaries you can get and then pick up the rest with your own troops left in Italy (like Spearmen and stuff).
After Africa is in your hands you will march through North Africa and then take over Iberia. At some point Numidia will spawn. Let them conquer the Numidian cities and then make peace with them.
While you are already there you can take over Massilia. Now it is time to develop a defensive plans against the Barbarians.
North Italy: I didn't settle Aquilea in those early days. So I needed to station one army between Massilia and Mediolanum (a street is key). If you settle Aquilea then you need two armies, one near Massilia and one near Aquilea.
Spain: You need one army between Carthage Nova and Saguntum (Gades will most probably be in Barbarian hands until you have enough troops to protect it on its own)
Africa: You need one army near Carthage and Iquy.
In general Legionaires are always good, but also take long to build and you need them for your conquest campaigns. If you want to mix your troops then I recommend following:
In the north and near Saguntum you need Legionaires and Javelineers as Axemen will spawn. In Gades you need Archers or Horsemen as Javelineers will spawn. In Africa you need Spearmen or better Heavy Spearmen to counter the Horsemen. Please note that I rely heavily on mercenaries for the troop types that I don't have.
My build order in newly conquered cities is usually: Monument, Granary, Fairground, Forum (will take ages .. but we have them)
With your slaves you go for improving the special resources and then you build enough farms for the city to reach a good size, depending on your happiness resources. More important is to maximize the amount of cottages. Your benchmark is three. If you can get a city to support and protect three cottages then this is awesome. Rome can do it, Saguntum, Carthage and later also Carthago Nova, Gades, Massilia or Iquy can, but between Barbarians hordes, hills, dense forest and poor terrain there are not too many cities in the West to achieve it.
Interestingly the terrain in Gaul is much better than the terrain anywhere in the Mediterranean .. but Gaul we leave for much later.
After a city has grown to a good size you settle slaves. 3-5 is a good number.
One note of interest : Forget about research and keep your balance in the green zone. Your stability is not the best and you need every point.
After you consolidated the West go for the East. First Athens and Ephesus, then North Greece and Thrace. Easy conquest (even with Antigonids present) but the north is subject to constant Barbarian pressure. Byzantium will face Horsemen and North Greece will face Melee units.
Then you pause and study the map. You want to be careful about engaging the Seleucids (Elephants !) or the Ptolemaic (War Galleys!). But sooner or later you have to. In fact I went first for Judaa as it was still independent. Then I took the Antigonids holdings in the Levant and I also went for Asia Minor. By then the Parthians had already taken over the Seleucids holdings in the Levant and so I dealt with them and finally I carefully planned my invasion of Eqypt.
In order to minimize exposure to their fleet I prepared three armies. One army near Cyrene, the main army coming from Judaa and then after conquering Pelusium and hence the Suez canal you also land a third small army near Berenice at the Egyptian Red Sea coast.
In this way you wont lose too many fishing boats and you take Egypt in around 4-5 turns
After you reached the first goal it is all too easy again. You consolidate your empire. You conquer and settle a little bit here and there. You move huge armies of slaves to improve the new cities and overall you simply rule an empire and you have plenty of time.
Your benchmark for the size of Rome should be 16-17. Thanks to their constant warrings neither the Indians nor the Chinese will have a bigger city and the size of the Mesopotamien or Egyptian cities you control yourselves. As long as you don't settle slaves in Rome you are bound to reach that goal easily.
The game as Carthage is very satisfying although (or maybe because) it is also a very easy game. Carthage has one of the most powerful Unique Powers as you can hire and maintain mercenaries for half the cost. This is especially attractive as you settle in territories which provide a steady supply of very powerful mercenaries like Greek Phalanxes.
You start quite advanced in possession of Carthage (called Qart-Hadasht), Caralis (Sardinia), Ziz (on Sicily), Gadir and Carthago Nova (called Qart Hadasht .. without the hyphen).
Your best (and I mean best like really really rich) territory for expansion is Spain.
But first you need Slaves and lots of them.
So I advise to become the nemesis of the Western Mediterranean.
Buy yourself a couple of bloodlusty mercenaries and then start following killing spree , you could raze Cyrene,Pella and this other Greek city northwest of Athens, Byzantium, Mediolanum (I could even raze it twice as it got refounded quickly) and finally Saguntum.
This will give you the resources to properly develop your existing areas and improve the newly conquered Syracuse, Massilia and Athens.
The latter city is actually not necessary for any goal, but it is a rich city, especially as you will get your Great Saint from the very same Athens due to Parthenon. Moreover, I think that my steady supply of mercenary Heavy Spearmen might result from my control of Athens.
Soon I also found Rusadir (Ivory) and Asturia Augusta (gold) (see details below)
Moreover I would advise to quickly settle Toletum (amazing city) and one city in Africa in the east of Carthage. Usually this would be the famous Iquy (Leptis Manor) but you actually can settle even two rich cities on this territory. In this case you would place one city more to the west and one city more to the east along the coast. In my case they were called "Sbrt'n" and "Thubactis". In between these two cities you can host 8 cottages .. that is quite a lot!
Apart from these I also founded a city in Lusitania and around Saguntum (i chose Barcino in reach of both seafood resources).
While developing the land you want to maximize your cottages. In Spain I managed to host 19 cottages with 6 cities and also 2 silver and 1 gold, especially due to Toletum which alone can support 5 cottages and 1 silver. Such rich provinces can finance any size of an Empire.
Please note that there is high Barbarian pressure in Massilia, moderate pressure in Spain, near Rusadir and near Carthage and sometimes some Barbarians will even march till Athens.
The most annoying ones are the Barbarians in Africa, not because they are strong, but quick.
One note about the Numidians. I didn't do it as I was greedy but in hindsight I would always simply leave Numidia to the Numidians (e.g. Cirta). This territory is just way too poor to justify the lives of any of our mercenaries.
1st UHV : Control 6 luxury resources by 150 BC
I misunderstood it at first, but control means either controlled by being within your own borders or by being in your possession after trading.
Nevertheless this distinction is more important for the 3rd UHV rather than the 1st one.
The first UHV is a very easy "Conquer and Settle"-goal.
Following spots are all within a few turns reach from Carthage and contain these 6 resources.
Pearls: Caralis / Sardinia
Silver: Carthago Nova (Qart Hadasht) / Baetica (Spain)
Wine: Syracuse / Sicily
Dye: Massilia/ Narbonensis
To be Settled:
Ivory: Mauretania (e.g. within the big cross of Rusadir)
Gold: Northwest Iberia (e.g. within the big cross of Asturia Augusta)
2nd goal: Defeat the Romans by 50 BC
Just load 3 galleys full with mercenaries and go for them. Do it quick otherwise you might have to chase them across half of the globe, although they also might collapse quickly after you evicted them from Italy and then made peace with them.
3rd goal: Control 10 luxury resources by 50 AD
This was trickier and I managed it only by 5 BC as I stumbled into a crisis sometime around 50 BC.
At first I thought I can manage this goal by trading with Saba (incense), China (Silk) and the Indians (Pepper, Cinnamon).
The first part (Saba) also worked brilliantly. However after making contact with India and China I did manage to get Pepper, but nothing else and the trading route with China was blocked (maybe due to an independent Samarquand).
Then around 50 BC the sitation changed from "not good" to "bad". Some unrest in India (Sakas maybe) disrupted my pepper supply and the ivory around Rusadir got exhausted.
So I went for a second approach. There are 2 additional luxury resources in Gaul (honey, fur), 1 resource in Egypt (cotton) and 1 replacement for the ivory in Kush (Meroe).
Hence I conquered Gaul and then Egypt and I also researched until Agrarianism. Funny though, just when I consolidated Egypt I got back in business with both China and India and so in the end I had the opportunity to control 12 luxury resources.
maybe the third goal should be reduced in number of luxuries but have the date brought forward.
Tips for the 3rd Bactrian UHV? Specifically, how to get Hellenism? Had thought there'd be enough time to send pilgrims, but the Seleucids won't open borders. Besides, what if I bring a missionary all the way back from Athens and it fails? Plus it kind of sucks representing the "eastern outpost of Hellenism" and only having one city with Hellenism most of the game.
Is there enough time build a Hellenic academy and still get three more Great People? Even then it takes until around 100 BC to build a Hellenic temple and spawn a Great Scholar (unless you want to stall Bactra's growth at pop. 3 and run a 50% chance of getting a G. Prophet instead of a Scholar). Anyone have a better strategy?
Also, does anyone run slavery, or do you stay with tribalism? Srpt usually seems to have a reason for each civ starting with the particular civics that they do, so I almost never switch at the start, but slavery is crucial in this game.
the Bactrians could easily start with slavery, its not intended that they should do without it. I always use it to build the palace.
perhaps they should always start at peace with the Seleucids. pilgrims are the obvious way for the Hellenism spread to be accomplished. the other way would be to trade for the Hellenism resource from whoever controls Athens, probably Rome. I like the Academy idea too.
I have also thought of having Great Prophets spawn with a particular religion attached (as a promotion). that would allow them to use the spread religion function without the player having a state religion.
If I run slavery I think I can get 4 GP by rushing temples and libraries, so the idea for allowing Great Prophets to spread without a state religion would make that a secure strategy (in case I don't get the academy).
Pilgrims can't enter without OB though (except for Indies), so being at peace with the Seleucids won't make a difference. Plus I think taking Aria from them is crucial because of its commerce, so war is necessary. I do really like the idea of sending people on long pilgrimages though. Maybe allow pilgrims to enter without OB? I don't think that's unrealistic. It would help with a similar problem with the Mauryas/Sungas (in case they control NW India and you have to declare war and ruin relations).
I rarely see the AI build the Statue of Zeus, so trading for the wisdom resource usually isn't an option. would it severely mess up the balance for the Med. civs if it were pre-built?
none of the other shrines are pre-built, except the Islamic one effectively since the Arabs start with a GP.
I meant that peace with the Seleucids would open the possibility of getting OB. Artacoana may be useful but I wouldn't say taking it was essential to the Bactrians goals. I only take it if it gets taken from the Seleucids by someone else, barbs or Sakas. if pilgrims can enter foreign territory without OB I think it all becomes to easy. I'm thinking of the Tocharians and Vietnamese here too.
Sure, that makes sense.
My other reason for taking Aria is that it is historical, and my strategy in RFC mods always involves following historical behavior as closely as possible - especially expansion-wise. I know most players may not do that, but I do think it's a good rule that historical behavior should be conducive to achieving UHVs.
I will say I tried to gift gold to the Seleucids to get them to OB before attacking them, but it wasn't enough and I didn't want to give them Selective Breeding.
yes historical behaviour is encouraged
why not give them Selective Breeding? soon enough they will have their hands full with the Parthians
Good point - I'll try that
My Rome strategy again: viceroy, Empire UHV
First UHV is the most challencing, second and third are very easy because most of civs are dead and you already are colossal.
Found Rome on the spot. Dont down Carthage because it will trigger Hannibal. Instead of ship all of your legions into Greece and conquer it. Athene is the most important because you want to build there religious wonder. After Greece ship your troops back to Italy and conquer Marseille. Then wait.
Set research on naval warfare, you need better ships because of pirates. After naval warfare ignore research on set it on zero, you dont need other techs.
You can found Ravenna and Neapolis if you want but I say it is waste of commerce: most of your cities have very poor production and those two cities take land from Rome making second UHV harder, but if you got a lot of slaves they will be usefull.
Slaves and barbarians: active kill barbarians to get more slaves, set your slaves into your cities (not in Rome!) to have more production. Build only legions in Italy and ships. Take always +20% vs barbarians promotion first or city raider/combat, also have a lot of ships to prevent fishing boats pillaged.
Then Carthage dows you. Make two armies: one to conquer Hispania and other to island hop finally into Carthage. Your legions are OP so it should not be difficult. Every time you take a city start building the cheapest unit: a spearman. Dont leave any garrions units, if barbarians take your cities it does not matter because they are easy to retake. Just make sure Italy remains safe. After Carthage collapses set your focus into east. All slaves you got send them into Italy to produce more legions, other cities can build workers and when Italy cannot be fed more slaves send them into other cities.
First take Byzantion, from there keep conquering cities. Your legion is very strong unit so just keep going further, you should be killing enemies faster than they can produce them so losing cities is not dangerous. Province of Syria and Egypt are the most difficult to take because Syria is huge and Egypt has tons of units. But with your legions nothing should stop you...
And this was the first UHV. Keep on mind that one turn is one year, so you can easily calculate how much time you have left.
Buld somewhere Great Lighthouse and take Rhodos with your veteral city raider legion to get Colossus. Build in every city a fairground and then Forum to solve you economic problems. You should get your first GP from Athene so there build Statue of Zeus and later Mint. Use your second GP to trigger a Golden Age, during Golden Age build Fairgrounds and Forums.
2nd UHV, just make Rome really big. If there are no super cities in India or China size of 15 should be enough.
here I will mention only few civs because this is otherwise very easy. How you cannot make this with your insane production? You control so many cities you cant fail this. So lets go.
Dacia is very difficult to take so prepare a lot of catapults. Their UU is insane str 5 +100% against melee, so your legions are useless. Simply overproduce them with catapults and legions.
Gaul is other tricky because of their UU, like with Dacia production is on your side so your final victory is only matter of time. Leave some units there because barbarians again.
Crimea can be difficult to hold because so many barbarians spawn next to it. To make sure you can keep it have atleast 8 legions on hills to guard your city, also it is a great source of slaves. Same thing with Dacia, Illyria and Thrace, have a lot of troops there because of barbarians.
Mesopotamia can be more difficult to take because like Syria it is huge. Parthia has nasty UU, a horseman str5 +100% against melee, so potentially you need lot of troops there. Like with other civs you have a huge production and much more time for 3rd UHV than first so eventually you will succeed.
I think after some patching I will try this again on Emperor difficult, lets check it out then.
It is possible to build a Hellenic Academy for the wisdom resource and still spawn 3 more GP by AD 50.
Send one of your initial ranged units to meet the Mauryas and trade for Organized Religion and rush a Hellenic Temple in Bactra. Focus on growth there until population 4 and then work a scholar. Use your first settler to build A. Oxiana and build a catapult (I only work the sheep and use the other population to work a citizen). Hire mercenaries as they become available and take Samarkand asap to build another catapult. You should have two catapults and enough mercenaries to invade India by 180 BC.
Build a settler in A. Margiana to settle Kapisa (A. Caucasusana) to access the gold in time assist with the Royal Mint.
Rush some combination of temples and libraries in Bactra, Takshila, and a third city (I do A. Opiana) and make sure to work only scholars and priests.
Just for fun I sent pilgrims to Athens to try that strategy as well, but my returning Hellenic missionaries all failed in Takshila (3 times!). So attempt that strategy at your own risk.
You can either send pilgrims for Buddhism, or trade for the resource if the Mauryas/Sungas have built the Mahabodi.
Otherwise just make sure your cities are well-defended for the Saka spawns. In truth you don't even need to hold any more than Bactra, Takshila, and the other GP city you've chosen. So much fun!!
and fun to read. I really like that new 3rd goal. glad you liked it too.
Does anyone have some ideas for how to do the Cheras or Cholas goals? Since the other cities in Tamil Nadu have walls the only way to acquire them seem to be through culture. By the time that happens, you've basically run out of time for whatever you're trying to do.
Edit : Spoke a little too soon, just did the Chera UHV. I built the temples right before 50 BC, had the artists and saints settled around 1 AD, and when the Mauryas collapsed around 20 AD did the 2nd one. There were some bugs with the UHVs -
-The 1st UHV doesn't tick off, although it does show the check mark
-The 2nd UHV doesn't tick off at all, although it does show the culture correctly (so I could see when I passed the rest of India)
-The 3rd UHV ticks off in 50 BC, not 50 AD
how did you capture the other Tamil cities?
Separate names with a comma.