Archaelicos
Warlord
I reliably kick ass on Prince. Have done pretty well on King. Am moving up to Emperor now and struggling to keep up. I attached a savegame, turn 170, AD 1100. Any tips or criticisms are welcome.
Struggling to improve my game. Playing Celts on Emperor
- Thread starter Archaelicos
- Start date
I'm confused about what you are trying to accomplish. Let me start with a state assessment, both to summarize my initial impressions and to help others weigh in without having to open the save file.
It's turn 170 (standard speed, large pangea map), and you have 8 cities -- capital with 9 pop, another city at 10 pop, 2 at 8 pop, and the remaining 4 at 7, 5, 4 and 2 pop. You have a settler about to found another city, but happiness may not support another city with no new unique luxuries
Although you have libraries in all cities except the smallest one (and have plenty of gold (621 gold) to buy a libraray in that city), you haven't built the National College and only 1 city (your 10 pop city) has a unviersity, and that one is on gold focus, running a market specialist. In fact, you are running market specialists in two other cities that are also on gold focus. As a result, you are only generating 86 beakers per turn. Nonetheless you entered into an RA with Darius 14 turns ago, which isn't going to be very cost-effective unless you really focus on generating beakers. In fact, one of your cities is on science focus, but only generating 7 beakers--kind of pointless. Within 9 turns you can have universities in 4 cities, with working specialists (taking beakers well over 130 per turn), and I would recommend that you do so.
You have completed Liberty and are 3 policies into honor (opener, warrior code and discipline). You aren't in the Renaissance yet (you can tech Acoustics, but are finishing Compass right now, for reasons I don't understand--only two of your cities are next to mountains, so obsrvatories should not be a priority, and your coastal cities aren't in immediate need of harbors). Your next social policy can be adopted in about 18 turns, so with appropriate tech order and your maturing RA, a belated jump into Rationalism should be possible. Four other civs are in the Renaissance (including all three of your immediate neighbors), but you haven't assigned your spy to any task. I would recommend spying on Alex ASAP.
No current wars, and it looks like you settled your war with Washington 14 turns ago on terms where Washington paid you some gold plus gpt. Looks like you had one earlier war (Darius - white peace on turn 102). You nearest neighbors are Darius (DOF and RA), Alex (who says he's friendly, but is grumpy that you breached a promise to remove your troops from someelse's borders and that you have a DOF with Darius, with whom he is at war--he's only willing to pay 172 gold for your furs, so a DOW is likely once he's down with his war with Darius), and Washington (your relationship is all negative modifiers, he has denounced you, and he is also at war with Darius). Darius has 9 citiies, Alex has 13 cities and Washington has 2 cities, plus a puppeted CS, and all three are in the Renaissance.
On the military front, because you are behind in tech, you are a bit underpowered for such dangerous neighbors. You have a small army of comp bows, catapults, and longswords near Washington's capital, but he has minutemen, pikes and trebuchets, so you are a bit outmatched. You need to get to machinery, upgrade your comp bows, and tech to gunpowder as soon as you can, upgrading your cats and swords, before taking on any of your neighbors.
On the gold front, you are generating 42 gpt, but 27 of that is from the peace deal and various part lump sum gold/part gpt trade deals (which seems to be typical post-patch) and some of the rest comes from the gold focus. The diplo overview says most of your trading partners are friendly, but your deal terms seem to be below market, some of which is due to trading with Alex and Washington. Have you been just taking what the AI offers, or have you been counter-offering to get to market terms? (Actually, as I look at it again, it looks like you are close to quick speed pricing--do you normally play quick games?)
So, you aren't in terrible shape--kind of middle of the pack in this game, which is good for your first Emperor game. Domination is probably your best bet, but you need to get caught up on tech in order to have real options. Rush build the NC and your universities, work the university specialist slots, jump into rationalism as your next policy, focus on getting your pop up, and get on at least tech parity with Washington before taking him out. Greece will be your biggest challenge, but Athens is near by and on an open plain, so may be easier to take than, say, Washington.
'Nuff for now. I'm going to play around a little further with your save.
It's turn 170 (standard speed, large pangea map), and you have 8 cities -- capital with 9 pop, another city at 10 pop, 2 at 8 pop, and the remaining 4 at 7, 5, 4 and 2 pop. You have a settler about to found another city, but happiness may not support another city with no new unique luxuries
Although you have libraries in all cities except the smallest one (and have plenty of gold (621 gold) to buy a libraray in that city), you haven't built the National College and only 1 city (your 10 pop city) has a unviersity, and that one is on gold focus, running a market specialist. In fact, you are running market specialists in two other cities that are also on gold focus. As a result, you are only generating 86 beakers per turn. Nonetheless you entered into an RA with Darius 14 turns ago, which isn't going to be very cost-effective unless you really focus on generating beakers. In fact, one of your cities is on science focus, but only generating 7 beakers--kind of pointless. Within 9 turns you can have universities in 4 cities, with working specialists (taking beakers well over 130 per turn), and I would recommend that you do so.
You have completed Liberty and are 3 policies into honor (opener, warrior code and discipline). You aren't in the Renaissance yet (you can tech Acoustics, but are finishing Compass right now, for reasons I don't understand--only two of your cities are next to mountains, so obsrvatories should not be a priority, and your coastal cities aren't in immediate need of harbors). Your next social policy can be adopted in about 18 turns, so with appropriate tech order and your maturing RA, a belated jump into Rationalism should be possible. Four other civs are in the Renaissance (including all three of your immediate neighbors), but you haven't assigned your spy to any task. I would recommend spying on Alex ASAP.
No current wars, and it looks like you settled your war with Washington 14 turns ago on terms where Washington paid you some gold plus gpt. Looks like you had one earlier war (Darius - white peace on turn 102). You nearest neighbors are Darius (DOF and RA), Alex (who says he's friendly, but is grumpy that you breached a promise to remove your troops from someelse's borders and that you have a DOF with Darius, with whom he is at war--he's only willing to pay 172 gold for your furs, so a DOW is likely once he's down with his war with Darius), and Washington (your relationship is all negative modifiers, he has denounced you, and he is also at war with Darius). Darius has 9 citiies, Alex has 13 cities and Washington has 2 cities, plus a puppeted CS, and all three are in the Renaissance.
On the military front, because you are behind in tech, you are a bit underpowered for such dangerous neighbors. You have a small army of comp bows, catapults, and longswords near Washington's capital, but he has minutemen, pikes and trebuchets, so you are a bit outmatched. You need to get to machinery, upgrade your comp bows, and tech to gunpowder as soon as you can, upgrading your cats and swords, before taking on any of your neighbors.
On the gold front, you are generating 42 gpt, but 27 of that is from the peace deal and various part lump sum gold/part gpt trade deals (which seems to be typical post-patch) and some of the rest comes from the gold focus. The diplo overview says most of your trading partners are friendly, but your deal terms seem to be below market, some of which is due to trading with Alex and Washington. Have you been just taking what the AI offers, or have you been counter-offering to get to market terms? (Actually, as I look at it again, it looks like you are close to quick speed pricing--do you normally play quick games?)
So, you aren't in terrible shape--kind of middle of the pack in this game, which is good for your first Emperor game. Domination is probably your best bet, but you need to get caught up on tech in order to have real options. Rush build the NC and your universities, work the university specialist slots, jump into rationalism as your next policy, focus on getting your pop up, and get on at least tech parity with Washington before taking him out. Greece will be your biggest challenge, but Athens is near by and on an open plain, so may be easier to take than, say, Washington.
'Nuff for now. I'm going to play around a little further with your save.
Archaelicos
Warlord
Wow, how did you figure all that out without having to open the save file!? Holy crap that's good stuff.
So I wrapped the library in Cork and I need to figure out where my national library should go. I'm not used to having to micromanage this much so that's probably why cities are all messed up, I usually just set them to do what I need when I found them, but I always forget to go back to them and keep them running right.
I'm thinking Nantes has a lot of jungle within reach, so that should be my NL, and cut down some trees to build farms to grow pop?
I dunno how you'd get 4 U's in 9 turns but I'll play aroudn with it and see!
Appreciate the input.
So I wrapped the library in Cork and I need to figure out where my national library should go. I'm not used to having to micromanage this much so that's probably why cities are all messed up, I usually just set them to do what I need when I found them, but I always forget to go back to them and keep them running right.
I'm thinking Nantes has a lot of jungle within reach, so that should be my NL, and cut down some trees to build farms to grow pop?
I dunno how you'd get 4 U's in 9 turns but I'll play aroudn with it and see!
Appreciate the input.
animalguy
Ermahgerd
How come you think he has not opened the save file? How else would he be able to get all those numbers?
Anyway given that you are playing on emperor rationalism is not much of a concern unless going for a science victory. Personally I find an early national collage all you need to out tech the AI, even in a culture game.
Anyway given that you are playing on emperor rationalism is not much of a concern unless going for a science victory. Personally I find an early national collage all you need to out tech the AI, even in a culture game.
I think Browd is suggesting Ratio as a boost to science in general and to make RAs already signed pay off more. Since he is behind on tech it's not a bad route. I would not deal with Washington in his prime, I like him out b4 minutemen. Alex might be a better target as his UUs are obsolete now. Your NC should go in a city with most growth potential which is usually your cap. Try building it before settling 3 or 4th city. Def b4 turn 100
animalguy
Ermahgerd
Sorry, should have mentioned that I was talking in genarl, not specifically to this game
I did browse the save (only way to figure out what I did). Somewhat agree on your second point, but turn 170 is a little late for an 'early" NC. At this point, trying a burst of science is probably the only way to catch up.
To the OP, I did roll forward 35 turns (to turn 205). Decided to found the 9th city on the hill you targeted and immediately started library, so NC was delayed. Finished NC in Dublin (more jungle inside the culture borders and ready for TP spam - planted an academy there) and universities in 6 cities running specialists. 240 beakers per turn at t205 (bpt crossed the turn count at about t195), signed RAs with Cathy and Sweden in the meantime, and just entered Industrial (through Fertilizer -- need the food with all these plains-tile cities on production focus). Still 6 percentage points behind on literacy (as compared to 7% at turn 170 - you have to hustle just to keep up
), but 44% to Cathy's 50% and beakers over the turn count is far better than 34% to Alex's 41% and beakers at half the turn count. A spy in Athens is 7 turns away from a tech (he's building riflemen, so snagging Economics would be nice - one hop away from Industrialization). Upgrading units is expensive, but under way.Not really interested in taking this further, but I'm satisfied that you could get back in this game within 30 turns or so.
grandad1982
Deity
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2007
- Messages
- 2,552
Well right here is a large part of your game you need to change to move up. You don't need to be totally anal about it, but do check your cities every few turns to make sure that the citizens are working the best tiles. Don't be afraid to change the tiles and spec slots that are being worked if you need some thing different from you city, i.e. max sci for GSci pops and RAs, max production to get out a wonder in time etc.
One good tip is to lock do the tiles you want and then put the city on production focus, because the way growth and production is calculated means that when your city grows you get a few extra hammers, just remember to reassign the new citizen if you don't want it working the production tile.
The Celts have three major bonuses:
1) their UU has the Foreign Lands bonus, which makes him a good offensive unit and a great unit once upgraded to a pikeman
2) their faith bonuses will help you pick up a religion before it's too late (a bigger risk at Emperor and up than realized in the first couple of play-throughs at that level).
3) their UB grants added happiness, which is always useful.
With this, I agree with Browd, and would say the Celts are more a domination side: conquer early on with upgraded UU's, build the UB for extra happiness, and keep rolling. And your particular situation fits with this.
1) their UU has the Foreign Lands bonus, which makes him a good offensive unit and a great unit once upgraded to a pikeman
2) their faith bonuses will help you pick up a religion before it's too late (a bigger risk at Emperor and up than realized in the first couple of play-throughs at that level).
3) their UB grants added happiness, which is always useful.
With this, I agree with Browd, and would say the Celts are more a domination side: conquer early on with upgraded UU's, build the UB for extra happiness, and keep rolling. And your particular situation fits with this.
Here is my tip, which will allow you to dominate any Emperor game: Get in the habit of focusing on 2-3 super cities and national college as soon as possible. The science output from these will keep you near the top of the pack without any micro-management needed.
From here, target the other top Civs beginning to pull away, and constantly drain them off units and gold. You don't need to capture cities if you don't have the military strength, just keep a few units outside of their borders and pick off anything they try and send out.
If a Civ is spending time constantly rebuilding military, they are not building infrastructure, wonders, or invading other Civs. They will end up crippling themselves, fall behind, and no longer become an issue.
I usually sell off my initial resources to purchase a settler instead of train. By the time I need the happiness, 30 turns will have passed and I will have the luxuries back. I also purchase the library in the second city, since it takes too long to build once I unlock NC. As a reference point, by 1AD my initial cities will have a combined pop. of around 30, and I will be in the middle of a military campaign against whichever neighbor is likely to give me the most trouble (or has the best luxuries).
From here, target the other top Civs beginning to pull away, and constantly drain them off units and gold. You don't need to capture cities if you don't have the military strength, just keep a few units outside of their borders and pick off anything they try and send out.
If a Civ is spending time constantly rebuilding military, they are not building infrastructure, wonders, or invading other Civs. They will end up crippling themselves, fall behind, and no longer become an issue.
I usually sell off my initial resources to purchase a settler instead of train. By the time I need the happiness, 30 turns will have passed and I will have the luxuries back. I also purchase the library in the second city, since it takes too long to build once I unlock NC. As a reference point, by 1AD my initial cities will have a combined pop. of around 30, and I will be in the middle of a military campaign against whichever neighbor is likely to give me the most trouble (or has the best luxuries).
