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Stupid Vassalization!!!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Stuck in Pi, Jan 20, 2008.

  1. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2007
    Messages:
    646
    Well, this is about the 4th time this has happened.

    I'm at war with an AI, and there's another AI at war with him.

    I'm about to launch a massive sledgehammer, then...

    The peace trumpets go off. Asoka vassilated.

    I'm angry that every time a near a kill, some other AI vassilizes him.
    In this game, I'll win through culture (I founded 6 religons), but I wanted the whole continent to myself!
     
  2. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

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    I really think there should be an option that should come up:

    Asoka has vassalized to Kublai Khan! What do you wish to do?

    1. It is the greatest of insults to side with our enemies! Kublai Khan will pay for this! (opinion: this should not give a declare war diplomatic penalty)
    2. They are now under the protection of their master, and there is little we can do. - Peace with both

    The difference between just declaring war as it is now and declaring war through this system is that your units won't (and shouldn't) get transported out of Asoka's territory such that you have to march them through again.
     
  3. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

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    I agree, but Brennus vassilized him. I don't want to declare war on him, he's the second best and on a different continent, but I'll probably win anyway.
     
  4. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    One option is to bribe the other civ(s) who are at war with your target into making peace. There's still a risk of vassalization, but they'll be at war with you if that happens, which reduces the likelihood considerably.
     
  5. FLUKE

    FLUKE Chieftain

    Joined:
    May 22, 2007
    Messages:
    50
    Location:
    Wales
    Turn Vassal off in a custom game, truly, the Vassal feature is monstrous and badly implemented.

    But at least you can turn it off.
     
  6. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

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    Turns out it was a good thing. About 10 turns later, Monty sent 20 galleons at me. Fortunately, I had privateers to spot and destroy the majority of the threat:D .
     
  7. Sisiutil

    Sisiutil All Leader Challenger

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    You think so? To each their own.

    From my point of view, the vassal feature adds a new set of decision points and challenges to the game. Yes, it can be frustrating to bring an enemy civ to its knees only to have it crawl into the lap of a rival. It can also be frustrating to get beaten to a wonder, but no one wants to turn wonders off.
     
  8. Refar

    Refar Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2005
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    4,608
    The only problem with the Vassal feature is, that if i have a Vassal i do not have enought control about the silliness he's doing.

    I.E. the featrue to prohibit vassal from trading away techs / trading with a particular third party is a must imho.

    Btw. does "We want you to attack [city]" work ? I tried it multiple times... My vassal never actually moved a single unit.
     
  9. ICNP

    ICNP The Third Superpower

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    Vassals are a big pain when people bring out the diplomacy wins.
     
  10. hossam

    hossam Deity

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    you can just declare war on brennus take the continent you want and then make peace with brennus.
     
  11. FuRRie

    FuRRie King

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    I sometimes get irritated by Vassalage as well, but you can turn it off if you want, so it isn't such a big issue.
     
  12. Blue Ether

    Blue Ether Chieftain

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    Location:
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    On small maps with lots of civs, vassalage is your friend. In fact, it's impossible without it. If you are taking cities that are within the cultural influence of another civ that you don't want to get involved with at the time, you can use your victim's culture to your advantage by making him or her your vassal.

    That is, once you make your opponent your vassal, your vassal's remaining culture shields you from third party cultural effects. Because your vassal will have to cede control of areas under his/her cultural influence that are within workable radius around your cities. And while they are still succeptible to riots by your vassal's culture, those riots will never result in the city flipping (presuming you have set "no city flipping after conquest").

    Whereas if you vanquish the foe completely, third party culture will just wind up city flipping your hard-earned spoils.

    If you are strong enough to keep your army rolling straight on into a war with the neighboring civ, there's no reason to bother with this. But when there are 3 or 4 seperate civs surrounding your conquest, this is not really an option. Everything has it's place.
     
  13. The Keeper

    The Keeper Warlord

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    Location:
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    In my last game, I was at war with the Mayans. The Byzantines were in the war too on my side. I took 4 Mayan cities and was marching a sizable force to their capital. Before I get there, they capitulate to the Byzantines even though the Byzantines had taken none of their cities. I was looking every few turns to see if the Mayans would capitulate and they would never capitulate to me.

    Later in the same game, the Byzantines declare war on Egypt. I decide to join in. Byzantine takes a large egyptian city and I take the Thebes (holy city and SoL) I was checking EVERY turn to see if they would capitulate - sometimes more than once a turn. They never would capitulate to me, but became a Byzantine vassal.

    At that point, I knew I could not win the game by domination. So I switched to a cultural victory and was able to pull it out. Creative constructions helped a lot there.
     
  14. Bahacles44

    Bahacles44 Chieftain

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    In my current game I am laying waste to Shaka's land after he sneak attacked my northern border (big mistake S man). When I am done I will leave him with his one barbarian capture city in the south. He'll have good company. Saladin will be his neighbor in the one city left to him. Then on to Hannibal, who will be left with a one-island empire. Maybe by that time Ramsses will make a worthy opponent. I haven't decided which city I'm going to leave him with yet, but it will be near Shaka and Saladin. They will be my pets and I will keep them happy with the occassional tech gift.:lol: I do this because I like to see what portion of my cities' population was originally from another culture.
     
  15. Stuck in Pi

    Stuck in Pi 3.14159265358979323846...

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    turned out it was a good thing (again). After breaking free, my stack was even tech wise with him, but i was making tanks. But Monty, being his usual self, decides to send 2 fleets at me. Bad idea. My destroyers eliminated him. Asoka: time to die...
     
  16. BalbanesBeoulve

    BalbanesBeoulve Emperor

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    Yeah, vassals can be a pain in the ass, and for a long time I turned them off. But after turning them back on I like them. It makes domination easier, as you don't have to take every city, just take out a few of the bigger nicer cities for yourself, and let the AI keep the crappier cities, while you still get some population and land credit towards your domination score.

    And I love it when a friendly but weaker civ offers themselves to be your vassal. In my last game Isabella offered to be my vassal so I'd protect her from Boudica, who'd vassalized Brennus, Asoka, and Wang Kon. I took her up on the offer, and she made a great vassal. She was actually teching very well, and being friendly I got a lot of trades from her. Everybody else was very technologically backwards the entire game.

    They also make great shields to attack another civ through.

    Recently I've started playing no tech brokering, so I can feel free to get a technologically backwards civ up to date, so they can put up a fight, but they won't trade away my shiny techs away for a bag of magic beans to a civ i'll soon be fighting.
     

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