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Stupidity is just a form of retardation

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Phlegmak, Jun 12, 2008.

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  1. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Deity

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    Augurey,

    Thanks for that. I have seen it before and had in mind to post it. Thanks, science and observable facts always win the debates and destroy emotional rhetoric. :thanx:
     
  2. kulade

    kulade Deity

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    So, Fox, in an effort to increase the standard for intelligent dialog on this thread, where did you post statistics/evidence/proofs proofing otherwise or refrain from personal attacks? I see augurey can find some! Don't pretend to hold some intellectual high-ground yourself when you only said the same things as the Phlegmak in a more obstinate way...
     
  3. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    Why do you think that George Bush is seriously unintelligent? The man flew fighter jets and graduated from Yale, and got an MBA from Harvard. Granted, he got average grades there - but you can't be literally stupid, or below average intelligence, and graduate from Yale. (Much less fly jet fighters)

    President Bush is inarticulate, and has made a lot of decisions that people don't agree with. That doesn't make him actually unintelligent, and by insisting that he is, you just come off as unintelligent yourself.

    Disagreeing with his policies is fine - I disagree with a great many myself. Discuss his poor public speaking skills - that's legitimate, as he isn't a very inspiring speaker, to say the least.


    Anyway, I think the answer is, of course, it depends. Making fun of someone who really doesn't know something, who is merely ignorant of the facts, is generally mean. Making fun of people who are intelligent enough to grasp certain things (Like "playing catch with a live hand grenade is incredibly stupid") but are too intellectually lazy or whatever to actually follow through (And thus, play catch with the grenade anyway) is legitimate. I think you need to differentiate between people who are actually born with a subpar intelligence, and people who are simply ignorant and dumb through lack of effort and desire for education or critical thinking.

    Making fun of the kid at the mall who is mentally handicapped is mean. Making fun of the English major that doesn't know what an adjective is, or on what continent Switzerland is, is perfectly legitimate. (And often quite funny) See the difference? The first kid can't help it. The second can.
     
  4. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Deity

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    Definition of Obstinate:

    Adjective

    obstinate (comparative more obstinate, superlative most obstinate)

    Stubbornly adhering to an opinion, purpose, or course; persistent; not yielding to reason, arguments, or other means; stubborn; pertinacious; -- usually implying unreasonableness.

    This is more of a description of Phlegmak, Cutlass and others who hold to a false belief no matter how little evidence is presented for their opines and how much there is to contradict those hypotheses. Words do have meanings, no matter how much one can lament and wish that was not so.

    I do not recall making any personal attacks against Phlegmak except maybe insofar as I called his original post childish in meaning or in intent? Or that I said that Bush may in fact be smarter and more successful then he is? Or when I told him he has to stop obsessing with Bush and look towards the future and what it is to be? None of which qualifies as an ad-hominen tactic, at least I don't think so.
     
  5. kulade

    kulade Deity

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    And how is this more adult than Phleg's post?
     
  6. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    Now, let me hazard a wild guess here.

    First, lefties don't like Bush. Actually, most people don't like Bush. His approval rates are astonishingly low, and he embodies exactly the attitudes that much of the left despises.

    Second, he's really really easy to make fun of. Really. I mean look up Bushisms on Google. It has what, half a million hits? And that's because he says some damn silly things.

    So, Lefties don't like him and he says alot of stupid things.

    It doesn't take a genius to realise that they might, just might, decide to charecterise him as stupid.
     
  7. AngryZealot

    AngryZealot King

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    Bush isn't stupid. He's known exactly how to manipulate the American people. (I don't believe he set out with bad intentions. He got way in over his head and all he knows is how to dig himself deeper. Had he kept better company and advisors, he could have been a very effective president.)
     
  8. Beaver Cleaver

    Beaver Cleaver Warlord

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    I am curious (not that I care much), how would a genius characterize Bush?
     
  9. LuckyAC

    LuckyAC Immortal

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    Bush isn't stupid compared to the general public, but he is below average for presidents/candidates (smarter than McCain, similar to Kerry, dumber than Gore, Clinton, Obama, Giuliani, Romney, Paul). With that said, you can easily graduate Yale and fly fighter jets if you are stupid. It's essentially impossible to flunk out of top private schools - the hard part is getting in (and Bush obviously wouldn't have without connections). And operating machinery is hardly an example of great intellectual achievement.
     
  10. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Deity

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    Beyond the obvious and self-evident fact that Bush has what, 7 months left, there is reality and it's evidences to evaluate what you say.

    Presidential Approval Ratings

    Click on the president's name to get a full report and graph of presidential approval ratings.



    President Highest Approval Rating Lowest Approval Rating
    Bush (G.W.) 92% 28%
    Clinton 73 36
    Bush (G.H.W.) 89 29
    Reagan 68 35
    Carter 75 28
    Ford 74 37
    Nixon 67 23
    Johnson 80 35
    Kennedy 80 56
    Eisenhower 79 48
    Truman 87 22
    Roosevelt 84 48

    http://www.ropercenter.uconn.edu/data_access/data/presidential_approval.html

    Here, another source far from liberal authoritarianism of bushophobia and repressed truths.

    http://www.pollingreport.com/BushJob.htm

    If speaking skills alone were used as a measure of intelect, all successful, presidential politicians are just as stupid.

    Even Obama, for instance would not be immune to leftists faux criticism.

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZxBX8sz3tO8&feature=related

    that
    is all
     
  11. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    First of all, my opening post was about stupidity really just being a form of mental handicap. I used George Bush as my example because he's the only stupid person who I regularly mock.

    How is hating the man who created the disaster in Iraq an obsession?

    You can just listen to his butchering of the English language, and incapability of learning to pronounce simple proper nouns in other languages to determine that.

    Also, I used to think it took intelligence to become the president. George Bush's presidency proves that it doesn't, beyond any doubt. What it takes to become the president is to be charismatic enough to win the nomination of one of two parties, and then simply be more charismatic than the other guy. Intelligence has nothing to do with winning the presidency.

    If money is your definition of success, then yes, he's far more successful than me. He certainly stands to make money as a speaker after his presidency is over, which he said he'll be doing. Nice, huh? He sends thousands of Americans to their deaths and he'll be a speaker after he's done. That is indeed smart, I'll give him that.

    My constructive criticism is that Bush and everyone of his cronies in the Executive branch should resign, but unfortunately that won't happen.


    Lots of people have flown fighter jets. All of those people are intelligent? And graduating from Yale no longer means anything, since it's literally impossible to get less than a C there (Bush got a C). And so did John Kerry, but the way.

    Let's look at just one for an example. Remember his speech when Katrina happened? "You're doing a heckuva job, Brownie." How can a nonstupid person say that? At the very least, that shows staggering incompetence.

    In that case, I've been generally mean by making fun of Bush?

    Well, Bush certainly fits your latter part of your paragraph perfectly.

    In that case, it's ok for me to make fun of Bush. I feel better. :)

    Well, I'm reasonable, so that definition doesn't apply to me. Persistent yes, unreasonable no.

    Of course it was an attack on me, but that's ok.

    EDIT: I'm wrong about Yale grading. Sorry about that. I was thinking Harvard. They changed their grading system a while back and I read about it in a school newspaper, back in ~1995. I don't know anything about the Yale grading system, and I'm still unimpressed that Bush graduated from it.
     
  12. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Yes you can. If your family is wealthy and influential enough.
     
  13. Fox Mccloud

    Fox Mccloud Deity

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    Phlegmak, your latest post offers nothing that has not been already answered in this thread. I'll try anyway....

    That would have been precisely what the topic would have been if you had used the thread for that instead of a cheap stab at political demagoguery and namecalling.



    Yet you still offer no support for your denial. Here's the link again.

    http://www-cse.ucsd.edu/users/gary/iq.html

    That is it?? Tha'ts your big proof that Bush is stupid? Obama would be stupid to.....

    http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZxBX8sz3tO8&feature=related

    Still no proof that he is stupid here, just more denial and fear. Phlegmak uses an unproven, mostly debunked hypothesis to prove another conclusion.

    contradicting yourself....

    That is good, I'm sure he would be happy that you stepped out of your fantasy of obstinate denial for but a minute to give him such praise as you seldom stop walking on your self-consumed hubris to appreciate much of anything that is unnacceptable to you or see it for what it is and not how you want it to be.

    You have to make up your mind, Phlegmak. First he is as dumb as a post, now he has cronies that took over the Executive branch to perpetrate all those conspiracies, I would assume.

    Is that stupid or smart? It can't be both.

    You made an unreasonable opinion, supported by nothing and then when facts are brought to challenge it, you ignore the facts. Obstinate is a pertinent description.
     
  14. Elrohir

    Elrohir RELATIONAL VALORIZATION

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    Depends what you mean. Not all of them make good decisions, but I doubt there are very many, if any, fighter pilots who are literally unintelligent.

    Or, he's a politician, making a political statement for political reasons. Like every other politician. Are all politicians stupid? :mischief:

    Wait. That's actually a good question.:lol:

    I think you've been immature, because you've shifted from legitimate attacks on his policies and his political ideas and actions, and onto the man himself.

    "I think Bush's tax cuts/War policy/environmental policy are misguided" is a legitimate thing to say. "BUSH IS DUMB LOLZ" is simply unconstructive, and makes the person saying it look like a political hack, and an utter buffoon incapable of serious political discourse.

    :lol: I don't think you can judge your own reasonability impartially at all. But I don't find it at all surprising that you think you're perfectly reasonable. Trolls usually have great faith in their own awesomeness.

    You're welcome to be unimpressed. I don't care.
     
  15. lovett

    lovett Deity

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    Seriously, what's you point?

    That Bush's approval rate jumped after 9/11, and then steadily declined until reaching their present day (in my own words) 'astonishing lows'?

    How the hell does that conflict with 'Lefties don't like Bush', or even 'Most People Don't like Bush'?

    :shake:

    Eloquence may not be a measure of intellect. But pointing at statistics implying that the US has low education standards doesn't quite pack the same punch as sniggering about 'they misunderestimated me'. Saying something stupid trumps vague policies that may or may not have failed any day of the week.

    As for Obama, firstly he simply hasn't said as many stupid things as Bush. And secondly, lefties like him. It's not that hard to realise that groups don't demonis people they like.
     
  16. Tycoon101

    Tycoon101 Loves being STRONG

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    From what I can gather from that useless chart, you are attempting to say that Bush has not been the universally hated man who he seems to be portrayed to be, however, that figure of "approval" means nothing due to the extenuating circumstances that surrounded that 92% "approval" rating. Judge the president due to his own deeds, not deeds done by assailants of the USA that just happened to boost American spirit.
     
  17. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    Seriously! My opening post was about stupidity being a form of mental handicap. I simply used Bush as my example because he's the only stupid person I regularly mock. If you don't want to believe me, fine, suit yourself.

    I've become convinced, due to this thread, that it's ok to make fun of Bush because he actually has the ability to not be dumb, but chooses to be dumb.

    All of that is fine, but it doesn't explain astonishingly bad decisions. By the way, IQ, especially IQ inferred about a person who hasn't taken an IQ test, isn't very meaningful. IQ isn't very meaningful in the first place.

    That used to be the primary thing. His amazingly bad policy decisions are part of it too. And then there's the ever-constant intellectual disinterest he has.

    As a few people here have reminded me, is that a person who is capable who refuses to use his brain is actually really dumb.

    Here are a few things:
    * Abstinence only education
    * The Iraq war
    * The Hurricane Katrina speech
    * Reducing tax income and then having an outrageously expensive war, putting the burden of the debt on other people
    * Only caring about "intelligence" that supports going to war with Iraq, and ignoring evidence that doesn't.
    * Supporting Intelligent Design
    * He actually looked into Vladimir Putin's eyes and said, "You're a good man." Vladimir Putin is nearly the definition of NOT a good man.
    * Extension of the above: Bush thinks he can determine things about people's character by extremely little evidence, which partially explains why he hires such bad people.


    I haven't watched your video above since my sound isn't hooked up to my computer. Obama's made several gaffes so far. Which are still WAY fewer than George Bush. I admit that the 57 states thing is pretty bad, and it shows he clearly wasn't thinking when he was speaking, but still, when counting his gaffes he's made many many fewer than George Bush.

    What? This is what I wrote:

    "What it takes to become the president is to be charismatic enough to win the nomination of one of two parties, and then simply be more charismatic than the other guy."

    Where's the contradiction? It takes charisma to become president. Charisma isn't intelligence. And not only does it take charisma, but one only needs to win the nomination of one of two parties. An extremely charismatic person in a party that's not the Democratic Party nor the Republican Party is automatically a loser. So, the presidential election is rigged to be winnable by only a small number of people. Where's the contradiction?

    Actually, now that I think about it more, to be the president, you just have to look better than the other guy. Bush is THE worst speaker I've ever seen, but he was much better during his 2000 campaign.

    Killing Americans in Iraq and then making money from doing that is pretty smart, and I certainly wouldn't do that nor would I have thought to do that. So for this one little thing, he's done something smarter than me.

    What conspiracies? He is as dumb as a post. His cronies are all the jerks he hired based on religious and political qualifications ONLY. And also the vice president; I'm including him too as a crony, but obviously not as a hire.
     
  18. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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    He's also a person who had to make some kind of speech about something he knew absolutely nothing about. Didn't you say that people who are capable but refuse to their capabilities are actually stupid?

    I honestly don't see the difference between attacks on his policies and attacks on his intelligence. Where do his policies come from? His stupidity, of course! Now, if Bush did nothing stupid and I kept calling him stupid, then you'd have a point.

    Well, I don't care that you don't care. No doubt you don't care that I don't care that you don't care. Well, neither do I.
     
  19. Phlegmak

    Phlegmak Deity

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  20. Rossiya

    Rossiya Fridge Magnet Porn

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    Ur gai. Lol@u

    Spoiler :
    :p
     
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