Submarines can't go under Ice

[npburg]

Has anyone else noticed that submarines cannot go under ice anymore? I have not tested nuclear subs yet.

This is kind of annoying since that was a cool feature in Civ V. Although I do like that most maps I have played on generate a path through the ice for all ships.

 

[Werewolflord]

I haven't try this, that was cool but not a big deal. However this is: submarine
-Minor issue: can coastal raid(so the big submarine crew go on land instead of sending battleship shooting on improvement - I don"t know if battleship can actually do that, I hope so)
-Medium issue: no defense penalty for being embarked? Submarines are meant to sunk convoys but they can hardly do damage to embarked unit. I try to sunk an embarked army of infantry with one sub and one destroyer, but infantry health never dropped under 90 - so I did very little damage even if it was an army and it seems the army was able th heal on neutral water.
-Big issue for me: I can launch torpedos with my submarine on land unit which are NOT embarked. And the torpedos were able to go through grass. Why having mighty battleship when you can have magic sub?

Did someone noticed that, do you think embarked units are too strong or is this because it is an army? And will sub always be able to attack on land?

 

[Big J Money]

*facepalms the entire thread and walks out*

 

[Cuneiform]

Ok so Submarines are one of the few things that I'm not really happy with at the moment.

I can understand the standard Sub not being able to go under ice, but the Nuclear Sub definitely should be able to, and it can't.

Also the whole coastal raid/bombard capability of subs was a surprise to me, and it kind of makes sense on one level but it also exposes more problems. A standard Sub shouldn't have a 2 tile land bombardment range, but rather 1 instead. The 2 tile land bombard range should be reserved for the Nuclear Sub i.e. Cruise missiles etc. Also why can't we have the deck gun firing instead of torpedoes travelling through cliff faces?

And just a more general point on Coastal raiding, I think all Naval units should be prevented from raiding land adjacent to Cliffs unless they have some sort of Commando promotion. Until the development of Bomb Vessels in the 1800's, the ships couldn't get the elevation on the guns to fire at buildings on top of Cliffs or high ground.

 

[Lord_Azazel]

Also why can't we have the deck gun firing instead of torpedoes travelling through cliff faces?

They're trying to sink the land, don't you understand?

 

[Lord Shadow]

That's probably a graphics glitch, an ill-picked animation. I saw nuclear subs on pre-release footage firing non-nuclear missiles at land units.

 

[UWHabs]

The flaw is having them in the same ship line as privateers, they essentially end up having to have the same promotion scheme. But yeah, some things that would make sense:
-Give them a +100% bonus against embarked units. Their primary purpose is hiding and destroying shipping lines, so that would be somewhat accurate.
-Allow subs to go under ice, but while under ice, they gain damage each turn, cannot heal, and cannot fire (essentially they can escape under ice, but can't camp there)
-No coastal firing against units or cities, until nuclear subs. U-boats were not build to attack mainland cities - they should basically only be used to destroy shipping lanes, but they should be awesome at doing that.

 

[isau]

Personally I wish they'd just remove the ice altogether. Never understood why we need separate fleets for the left and right side of the map. It may be true to history to an extent, but in this game its just annoying, and I have no doubt if flummoxes the AI.

 

[lordhaw]

I like the coastal raid thing in theory. After all you could shell from a WW1 or WW2 type sub using the deck gun, though in reality that would be suicide especially in WW2 except at night and I'm not sure how effective it would have been. But the torpedo animation for coastal raiding does kind of spoil it. And the range is a bit far considering.

Having nuclear subs being able to go under the ice would be nice but not really a feature I care about to be honest.

 

[Cerilis]

They're trying to sink the land, don't you understand?

Meh, embedding a timestamp doesnt work. Check 1:45.

 

[Werewolflord]

Meh, embedding a timestamp doesnt work. Check 1:45.

oh... yeah that's probably what happened.
I like the idea of sub going on ice with penalties

-Allow subs to go under ice, but while under ice, they gain damage each turn, cannot heal, and cannot fire (essentially they can escape under ice, but can't camp there)

 

[Lord_Azazel]

oh... yeah that's probably what happened.
I like the idea of sub going on ice with penalties

The penalties do not correspond to irl nuclear subs though. They can be out at see for months at the time and they've reached the north pole with subs, and they can breach the ice so that they can fire missiles.

 

[Lord Shadow]

I like the coastal raid thing in theory. After all you could shell from a WW1 or WW2 type sub using the deck gun, though in reality that would be suicide especially in WW2 except at night and I'm not sure how effective it would have been. But the torpedo animation for coastal raiding does kind of spoil it. And the range is a bit far considering.

Having nuclear subs being able to go under the ice would be nice but not really a feature I care about to be honest.

WW2-era submarines generally had a single tank-calibre deck gun. It was never intended for coastal bombardment and while theoretically possible, it's not something that should be represented in Civ.

 

[lordhaw]

WW2-era submarines generally had a single tank-calibre deck gun. It was never intended for coastal bombardment and while theoretically possible, it's not something that should be represented in Civ.

This is true. And reading accounts on their use for finishing off damaged ships rather than waste a torpedo early in the war, they had to sometimes use far to many shells to get a ship to sink. So yes, in reality, having the option of using a sub for a coastal raid is kind of dodgy.

 

[Schlomoe99]

As to subs causing damage ashore, I offer exhibit A from WW2:

U.S.S. Barb: The Sub That Sank A Train
http://media.wix.com/ugd/9ac96c_ced0bfe6271c43a8a305c700fa66e9af.docx?dn=Barb%20vs%20Train.docx

It might require a slightly different animation however.

It would be a neat Easter egg, if you ever named your sub USS Barb

 

[Erudain]

well yeah but something happening once doesnt make it a norm.....hell, I can be riding a horse, jump and gallop over WWI planes wings in Battlefield 1....and that doesn't mean anyone actually did it IRL

 

[Werewolflord]

The penalties do not correspond to irl nuclear subs though. They can be out at see for months at the time and they've reached the north pole with subs, and they can breach the ice so that they can fire missiles.

Quite impressive, I guess magic overpowered sub do really exist.
After all it is impossible for a sub in civ, but does someone has tested it for a nuclear one? I lost before having it - I did'nt see my vulnerable ally was so close o religious victory

 

[atomfenrir]

Bahaha, I'll never forget my first lesson in Civ5 with submarines under the ice.... I always liked to check "Complete Kills" (which unfortunately doesn't appear to be an option in Civ6), and had just finished off an Atomic Era Germany's last cities in a brutal, although conventionally fought war. Mopping up units, next thing I know a nuclear submarine surfaces from beneath the ice and launches a Nuclear Missile at one of my cities as a final "screw you" from old Bismarck. lol. good times.

Of course I miss the ability.