[submod] Cross' Overhaul: 17 New Civs, Shia Religion, Civics Rework, Crusades and Much More!

[Tigranes]

New Big Patch

New civ: Anglo-Saxons

They spawn in 430 AD during the migration period. England now spawns in 1035, in Normandy, as the Duchy of Normandy, with a generous troop allocation on boats.

Notes:

• Split England into Anglo-Saxons and Normans
  • 430 AD start date
  • UP: +1 hammer + 1 commerce from forests
  • UU: Thane, swordsman with amphibious, city raider, 25% attack bonuses against some units (archer, swordsman, heavy spearman), -25% defense against lancers.
  • UB: Moot Hill, replaces jail, gives some culture, happiness and GP rate.
  • UHV: defeat Charlemagne in Saxony, have some elite melee units, conquer England and survive the Vikings and Normans.
• England starts out as "Duchy of Normandy", 1035 AD
• Disable indy Hamburg spawn.
• Make Cologne spawn in 430 rather than 470.
• Add more tiles of Normandy, Brittany and Belgium to English settler map.
• Anglo-Saxon settler and war map is similar to England, but without the middle eastern and Egyptian settler values, and adding Lower Germany to its historical area.
• Make one of the fish off the east coast of England appear only after the Norman conquest.
• Irish and Pictish (Scottish) cities now spawn earlier, and only spawn if Celts aren't human controlled.
• Exclude some tiles around Hamburg for HRE spawn. Saxons get to keep it if they hold it already.
• HRE now has a reduced birth area but flips French cities that are closer to its new spawn capital of Regensburg, than to the middle of France (region).
• HRE starting civic should be vassalage rather than Theocracy
• Nidaros -> Trondheim in "Denmark-Norway" period.
• Barbarian Nidaros before Norse spawn, to prep that city location.
• Lower relative priority of Estonia over other Norse city sites.
• Remove the marsh from Amsterdam from the start; allow HRE to settle there.
• Give AI Assyria another extra archer at spawn.
• Reduce France's initial extra AI units due to new Charlemagne conquest events.
• Fix syntax error in spreadProtestantismInEastAsia

Well, this was unexpected! I thought you said your civ count is now complete . Anyways, what was your motivation for Anglo-Saxons, I wonder?

 

[Crossphazer]

Well, this was unexpected! I thought you said your civ count is now complete . Anyways, what was your motivation for Anglo-Saxons, I wonder?

Europe 400-1000 was a bit lacking in content and had geographical gaps where a civ could fit. Converting English to Normans allows for Hundred Years War continental fighting between England and France whereas previously England would just sit on its island and not do much until the colonial era.

 

[Tigranes]

Wow, this was a very brutal implementation!

 

[Crossphazer]

Wow, this was a very brutal implementation!

Some city walls, heavy spearmen and you'll be okay, it's a bunch of lancers. Having a fleet for turn 1 of Norman spawn helps.

 

[Tigranes]

I was also wondering what happened here, because, as far as I understand, you have adopted a rule about not erasing the previous city, unless it is in the neighboring tile of new civ's capital?

 

[Crossphazer]

I was also wondering what happened here, because, as far as I understand, you have adopted a rule about not erasing the previous city, unless it is in the neighboring tile of new civ's capital?

That's unrelated to your spawn. Save & then retire, view the replay history. It probably got razed by barbarians or another civ.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch
Norse spawn moved to 770AD. This is so that the Viking raids & invasions can start when they're supposed to, in the late 8th century. 550 AD start is rather premature, especially now that we have the Anglo-Saxon civ. The Norse's starting units and techs got buffed a bit, in accordance to their new start date.

This change made as a result of additional playtesting for Anglo-Saxons, to reduce some of the initial pressure on them.

More Early Middle Ages tweaks to come, as I continue to playtest Anglo-Saxons, Frankia, Norse, HRE etc.

Notes

• Move Norse spawn to 770AD, right into the Viking invasion period.
  • Tech buff, starting units buff for Norse.
• Remove Norse from start of 600AD scenario.
• Constrain Ostrogothic spawn to NE of Italy, rather than directly above it.
  • This should impact Anglo-Saxons less.
• Slight buff to starting archers & spearman for Anglo-Saxons.

 

[Tigranes]

My biggest annoyance with early middle ages are the sheer number of Barbarians. I get it, it was crazy back then, but currently it feel like an overkill. Maybe tune down numbers by 10-15% ?

 

[Crossphazer]

My biggest annoyance with early middle ages are the sheer number of Barbarians. I get it, it was crazy back then, but currently it feel like an overkill. Maybe tune down numbers by 10-15% ?

The barbarian invasions seem alright from autoplays, knocking out an appropriate number of cities, but I will continue to tune it. Usually in a balance patch I play with the number and frequency of barbarians.

 

[Tigranes]

1850-1920 Wu comes to life under dynamic name of Southern Ming. Is this intentional? I was thinking more like Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace or Revived China. Something more modern sounding...

 

[Crossphazer]

1850-1920 Wu comes to life under dynamic name of Southern Ming. Is this intentional? I was thinking more like Heavenly Kingdom of Great Peace or Revived China. Something more modern sounding...

No, it is not intentional, thank you for bringing it up, as it is a bug I can solve, although for reasons of condensed history the leaderhead will jump to Chiang and probably have RoC-type nomenclature.

Edit: New Patch

• Fix leaderhead, name and ajective for a respawned Wu of the 19th century
  • Date comparison checking for >= 1830 had an error
  • For now, adopt Republic of China/Chinese nomenclature.
• Republic name works either with Constitution or Nationhood, as opposed to just Constitution.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Wow, this was a very brutal implementation!

Dunno, for me Anglo-Saxon UHV was a cakewalk (overall i feel that UHVs in this interesting and comperhensive modmodmod suffer from being either very easy or very hard - i still have yet to imagine how Khazars can get 3 Golden Ages, even if you smh meet two other conditions first). Perhaps that happened because i rushed the French with Thanes upgraded with a GG: razed Bordeaux with a naval invasion and then took Paris; only a turn before their capitulation i learned they are supposed to get conquerors on me (my lack of knowledge of the period surprisingly played to my advantage). Vassalised the French, kept a stack of Thanes in Paris and a few Heavy Galleys in London. As a result - the entire invasion consisted of 4 Lancers, because most of fleet was sunk on spawn (they autodeclare war) and their settler was slaughtered along with its remarkably poor escort

Amusingly enough, the English became effectively immortal after we signed peace (for a tech) - they had 2 cogs left but no cities nor settlers, with stability at 0 (and being an important faction). They were hanging around the Isle of Man until 1200 and UHV.

Amusingly enough [2], in my 1.17 British UHV run i also razed Bordeaux and vassalised the French early - realised that only in retrospective.

The key imho is that you don't need improvements at all all - grass forests with Elective give you 2 food, 3 hammers and 2 commerce. This is frankly absurd.

 

[Tigranes]

I was like -- I would not call these Anglo-Saxons "Petty" ....

,​

and also could not understand why the "England" is called England in this situation? Normandy and Cornwall is the name! In case you all wondering why does it rank higher that Saxons, here's why (Norman crusades?):

​

Finally, I think this is the bug where Pagan Temple survives Catholicism: it was supposed to be re-purposed as Catholic Church...

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Could there be a dynamic name for the Anglo-Saxons where after 1000 AD they are the Kingdom of England

 

[Crossphazer]

Dunno, for me Anglo-Saxon UHV was a cakewalk (overall i feel that UHVs in this interesting and comperhensive modmodmod suffer from being either very easy or very hard - i still have yet to imagine how Khazars can get 3 Golden Ages, even if you smh meet two other conditions first). Perhaps that happened because i rushed the French with Thanes upgraded with a GG: razed Bordeaux with a naval invasion and then took Paris; only a turn before their capitulation i learned they are supposed to get conquerors on me (my lack of knowledge of the period surprisingly played to my advantage). Vassalised the French, kept a stack of Thanes in Paris and a few Heavy Galleys in London. As a result - the entire invasion consisted of 4 Lancers, because most of fleet was sunk on spawn (they autodeclare war) and their settler was slaughtered along with its remarkably poor escort

Amusingly enough, the English became effectively immortal after we signed peace (for a tech) - they had 2 cogs left but no cities nor settlers, with stability at 0 (and being an important faction). They were hanging around the Isle of Man until 1200 and UHV.

Amusingly enough [2], in my 1.17 British UHV run i also razed Bordeaux and vassalised the French early - realised that only in retrospective.

The key imho is that you don't need improvements at all all - grass forests with Elective give you 2 food, 3 hammers and 2 commerce. This is frankly absurd.

Thanks for your feedback on the playthrough!

I don't mind UHVs being easy as long as they are thematic - to encourage players to pursue goals aligned with their civ. Some tweaking of Anglo-Saxons, Normans and Franks are in order though.

For UHVs that are too hard, if you have others you know of aside from the Khazars. Let me know. I can tune them down, or simply change them. The Khazar Golden Age UHV should probably be substituted for something else. I'll think it over.

Grass forests being absurdly powerful for Anglo-Saxons is intended. It's to kick-start their production and economy. If you were playing the game past UHV, there would eventually be advantages to turning them into cottages with the bonuses that late game civics like Nationalism provide to them.

Could there be a dynamic name for the Anglo-Saxons where after 1000 AD they are the Kingdom of England

Yes, I plan to add such a dynamic name, either triggered by date or a certain tech or tech level (column).

I was like -- I would not call these Anglo-Saxons "Petty" ....

Petty Kingdom is a term for smaller, usually county or duchy-sized realms, where the ruler is called King. The name is to reflect the many Anglo-Saxon (and continental Saxon) realms.

and also could not understand why the "England" is called England in this situation? Normandy and Cornwall is the name!

I will probably add a check to prevent the name if the Anglo-Saxon civ is still alive.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch

• Change golden age UHV of Khazars for trade route UHV
  • Might still need more balance passes
• Dynamic England name for Saxons; Norman name stays longer
• Thane UU no longer starts with amphibious nor city raider 1. It still retains its 25% offensive bonus against archers, spearmen and swordsmen.
• AI Frankia has a few extra starting archers.
• Slight buff to AI Norman defenders in Normandy.
• Wetjeset-hor dynamic names.

 

[Triquetra]

Just a minor suggested change from my end: could you add more dynamic names for the Celts during the middle ages? It feels awkward to still be called a "chiefdom" all the way to the modern era despite advancing and changing civics.

Also, I'm feeling that Zoroastrianism is a bit underpowered and loses relevance as a religion past the classical era. Maybe adding another wonder that can be built in the middle ages (like Chak-chak) could bring it up to the same level as other religions?

 

[Crossphazer]

I'm currently trying to isolate a rare-ish crash that has happened to me on autoplay. It might take me while as I load through games on debug mode hunting for it. I think it was introduced around the time of my last sync with upstream, although I'm sure it's on my end and not Leoreth's.

Just a minor suggested change from my end: could you add more dynamic names for the Celts during the middle ages? It feels awkward to still be called a "chiefdom" all the way to the modern era despite advancing and changing civics.

Also, I'm feeling that Zoroastrianism is a bit underpowered and loses relevance as a religion past the classical era. Maybe adding another wonder that can be built in the middle ages (like Chak-chak) could bring it up to the same level as other religions?

Yeah, Celts need a touch up for naming in the middle ages.

Zoroastrianism is supposed to lose relevance past the classical era, but I could take a look at what wonder 3d assets are out there in the downloads section to see if anything is usable.

 

[Tigranes]

Houston, we have a problem...

 

[TsimTsigal]

For UHVs that are too hard, if you have others you know of aside from the Khazars. Let me know.

I haven't played (let alone achieve) all UHVs of the modmodmod, but i had troubles with Zulu's "kill 30 units" objective - the problem is that there might be less units in colonial forces. I had to give up my cities twice on the Congress and hunt Frigates with Galleases, and still was one unit short of UHV2 (however, the Dutch were very passive this game, so probably it's not a general case). Their UP (as well as UU and UB) is wildly fun tho.

Shu might be a bit too hard overall, but i can't say i was really tryharding it; i've tried to meet most UHV before Qin/Wei (a bit sad that there are no references to my personal favourite of the Three Kingdoms) spawn but it seems to be the wrong route (in which i was forced by Barbs conquering Xia early and forcing me to replace Zhou dynasty early), instead the idea is to consoldiate the South first, i presume?

Side note: Armenian UP is really bad: they have miniscule core, and their only city (Dvin) can be attacked from outside the core, making the UP useless both for and against human player). I'd suggest replacing it with something like +1 from hills in core because Dvin is impossible to grow before Machinery, which is ironically past Armenian peak of power, and current core population is barely enough to keep historical lands - this is a bigger problem that it appears; Armenian UHV requires a very long game (i think THE longest in turns), yet pathetic core means you better skip turns until 1919 and mass Statemen. I've abandoned my UHV run because trying to conquer even Asia Minor leads to collapse, and there is very little else to do.

Side note 2: around 400 AD, huge stacks of European barbarians (mostly melee units) migrate through Caucasus. It happened in both Parthian and Armenian games, around the same time. Possibly it's caused by Barbs trying to migrate to the Northern Africa (Egypt) with Constantinople forcing them to go around the Black Sea