[submod] Cross' Overhaul: 17 New Civs, Shia Religion, Civics Rework, Crusades and Much More!

[Tigranes]

If one continues to play Minoan civ after Mainland Greece birthdate it is possible to recreate some Sparta vs Athens Peloponnesian War badassery!

By the way, @Crossphazer , that poor Greek Illyrian Settler was going up and down the coast for 10 turn now hesitating to finally settle. Do you know what is causing this strange AI behavior and could you please solve it?

 

[TsimTsigal]

Especially ironic given that Sparta was the most "Dorian" polis (Greeks considered their martial, ascetic culture to be preserved traditions of their forefathers), but it were Dorians who played the most important role in the fall of the Mycenaen Civilization.

 

[Tigranes]

Ever wonder how would Mediterranean look like if only Greeks had helped Hannibal to capture the "Eternal City"? It's so peaceful without Rome now! Better dead, than red!

 

[Tigranes]

@Crossphazer , in ancient times slave labor was prevalent in mines and quarries, which had large slave populations, often leased out by rich private citizens. We really need slave quarries if we have slave mines, and, additionally, one should be able to actually use slaves to build those mines and quarries instantly. Currently, slave mine can be built instantly under Colonialism, but old good Slavery civic does not even allow to use Slaves to build mines or quarries at all (instantly or otherwise).

 

[Crossphazer]

By the way, @Crossphazer , that poor Greek Illyrian Settler was going up and down the coast for 10 turn now hesitating to finally settle. Do you know what is causing this strange AI behavior and could you please solve it?

I will keep an eye out for cyclic AI behaviour but these problems are hard to solve.

@Crossphazer , in ancient times slave labor was prevalent in mines and quarries, which had large slave populations, often leased out by rich private citizens. We really need slave quarries if we have slave mines, and, additionally, one should be able to actually use slaves to build those mines and quarries instantly. Currently, slave mine can be built instantly under Colonialism, but old good Slavery civic does not even allow to use Slaves to build mines or quarries at all (instantly or otherwise).

I'm not a fan of the slave mine or slave plantation in general, as it is always a worse choice compared to just building regular mine/plantations with workers. If I make any change it would be to remove that improvement type and change colonialism to give a commerce bonus to slave specialists in addition to their production bonus.

 

[Tigranes]

I'm not a fan of the slave mine or slave plantation in general, as it is always a worse choice compared to just building regular mine/plantations with workers. If I make any change it would be to remove that improvement type and change colonialism to give a commerce bonus to slave specialists in addition to their production bonus.

Well, can you at least make Slaves like slow Workers, enabling them to do everything a Worker can do at half the rate? After fighting Migration Period Barbarians, I am stuck with 15 slaves and want to enjoy a small reward for all that crazy defense one has to master. I cannot settle them in my already unhappy cities. At minimum, I want to use them to rebuild all those pillaged improvements, but currently slaves can only build roads, farms and orchards. No mines, no quarries, no lumbermills. I mean, why? Ai could benefit from it too, and Slaves building mines look very thematic. I agree with your thought about special "slave" improvements. But consider this; AI does not know how to settle slaves! I have never seen a city with them doing it. However "slave" improvements improve yields, and can be useful for AI. It makes slave trading useful. Some civs pay up to 300 gold, and they need to get some very tangible benefits in order to justify slave trade.

 

[TsimTsigal]

Completely agree. First, a set of improvements that can be built by Slaves is very bizzare (i can understand why they can't build Cottages or Workshops, but why are they unable to build Mines and Quarries?). Second, AI doesn't know how to use them. Third - there is an abuseable Traingle Trade con: send a Scout to Nigeria, buy Slaves from them for techs, sell to France, Spain and other colonial powers for 150-300 coins a slave. Rinse and repeat.

 

[Tigranes]

You have to see this AI China to believe it!

 

[Reverse Ideology]

Hi, I wanted to give this mod a shot, since it has a bigger map and some other cool features.

I loaded in as 600AD Japan start, and found myself staring at the 'normal' unit models the base game has, which, well... they're not ugly it's just that... they're there, yeah...

I loaded back to normal Dawn of Civilization, same conditions as before, 600AD Japan start, and find myself staring at the prettier unit models.

The first three sets of images I have attached are NORMAL Dawn of Civilization, the other set of three are Cross' Overhaul (as you can see it's a Japan comparison and then I went to ther other side of the map to find Byzantium and compare as well).

Is this a bug and if so, how can I fix it? Or is it intended?

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Hi, I wanted to give this mod a shot, since it has a bigger map and some other cool features.

I loaded in as 600AD Japan start, and found myself staring at the 'normal' unit models the base game has, which, well... they're not ugly it's just that... they're there, yeah...

I loaded back to normal Dawn of Civilization, same conditions as before, 600AD Japan start, and find myself staring at the prettier unit models.

The first three sets of images I have attached are NORMAL Dawn of Civilization, the other set of three are Cross' Overhaul (as you can see it's a Japan comparison and then I went to ther other side of the map to find Byzantium and compare as well).

Is this a bug and if so, how can I fix it? Or is it intended?

The last set of images look like they are on a version of the game before 1.18

 

[Reverse Ideology]

The last set of images look like they are on a version of the game before 1.18

I'm sorry, even though I MADE SURE to upload the images in proper order... the forum simply said NOPE, and re-arranged them at will.

But I insist, this is last version on everything (mod and sub-mod). The images that have the default skin are with the sub-mod, and the ones that are different are with base mod.

 

[Tigranes]

@Crossphazer , we miss you!

Seriously, though, it is kind of funny how one gets used to a very active development and then, when all of a sudden it just goes silent for few days, the first thought is --is everything ok?

When you come back, would you please look into the situation with mercenaries? Hired swords or guns were around just as long as war was around. And yet, after your recent civic changes I cannot see a single mercenary around (except for Phoenician UP ones) because Democracy comes very late . Bureaucracy looks particularly uninspiring and weak choice right now and could use hurry by gold feature, please!

Also, when Muslim Tunis comes back to life it does not have to claim old lands of aforementioned Phoenicians. It feels very weird

 

[Crossphazer]

Hi, I wanted to give this mod a shot, since it has a bigger map and some other cool features.

I loaded in as 600AD Japan start, and found myself staring at the 'normal' unit models the base game has, which, well... they're not ugly it's just that... they're there, yeah...

I loaded back to normal Dawn of Civilization, same conditions as before, 600AD Japan start, and find myself staring at the prettier unit models.

The first three sets of images I have attached are NORMAL Dawn of Civilization, the other set of three are Cross' Overhaul (as you can see it's a Japan comparison and then I went to ther other side of the map to find Byzantium and compare as well).

Is this a bug and if so, how can I fix it? Or is it intended?

By "normal" DoC you mean 1.17? The small map version? The downloable version probably comes packaged with Varietas Delectat, which has a submodule here https://github.com/dguenms/DoC-Varietas-Delectat

I'm not even sure the VD submodule works in DoC 1.18 at the moment, and I haven't tried using it in my submod.

 

[Triquetra]

Mm, VD would be nice if possible... I'm all in for extra flavor!

 

[soul-breathing]

Win as Shu, still the UHV is a little too easy, there're more than 10 luxury resourses in Yunnan and Burma, and all you need to do is running Monarchy (happiness from forests) and conquer Kumming from Barbarians.

Spoiler :

 

[soul-breathing]

Also a suggestion, maybe the starting plot of Wu need to move 2W to Nanjing(Moling).
In Chinese history, Nanjing is the capital of Kingdom of Wu(Three kingdoms period), and almost all south dynasties(Eastern Jin, Song, Qi, Liang, Chen, Southern Tang, Ming Dynasty at beginning(then move to Beijing)) of China would choose Nanjing as their capital.

Spoiler :

 

[Tigranes]

Is there any way to adjust culture rules in order for the 3rd ring of Spanish city does not steal a Crab from poor Portuguese capital? Like we have it with Iron: it is only 42% Portuguese but the game assigns it to Portugal.

 

[Crossphazer]

Also a suggestion, maybe the starting plot of Wu need to move 2W to Nanjing(Moling).
In Chinese history, Nanjing is the capital of Kingdom of Wu(Three kingdoms period), and almost all south dynasties(Eastern Jin, Song, Qi, Liang, Chen, Southern Tang, Ming Dynasty at beginning(then move to Beijing)) of China would choose Nanjing as their capital.

Spoiler :

View attachment 719689

Yes, although I will probably have to edit the resources/terrain to optimize the city placements.

Is there any way to adjust culture rules in order for the 3rd ring of Spanish city does not steal a Crab from poor Portuguese capital? Like we have it with Iron: it is only 42% Portuguese but the game assigns it to Portugal.

I can probably reduce Spain's culture modifier. Or remove the barbarian city in that corner and force Spain to settle it themselves.

Win as Shu, still the UHV is a little too easy, there're more than 10 luxury resourses in Yunnan and Burma, and all you need to do is running Monarchy (happiness from forests) and conquer Kumming from Barbarians.

Spoiler :

View attachment 719665View attachment 719666View attachment 719667

I'll look into increasing the UHV difficulty and probably replacing "by" with "at" for the conquest goals.

@Crossphazer , we miss you!

Seriously, though, it is kind of funny how one gets used to a very active development and then, when all of a sudden it just goes silent for few days, the first thought is --is everything ok?

When you come back, would you please look into the situation with mercenaries? Hired swords or guns were around just as long as war was around. And yet, after your recent civic changes I cannot see a single mercenary around (except for Phoenician UP ones) because Democracy comes very late . Bureaucracy looks particularly uninspiring and weak choice right now and could use hurry by gold feature, please!

Also, when Muslim Tunis comes back to life it does not have to claim old lands of aforementioned Phoenicians. It feels very weird

Respawn flips can be a bit finnicky, although this is a rare occurrence as far as I've seen. I will probably convert the respawn into a full civ, since it would occupy the same slot, but it'll take some time to make/find UHV, UB, UU, UP, flag decal, etc.
Giving bureaucracy hurry gold sounds like it would work, I'll need to review the civics for the hurry gold feature.

Mm, VD would be nice if possible... I'm all in for extra flavor!

If I get to a point where I am done with features, other civs and such, yes

 

[TsimTsigal]

I had an incredibly bizzare game in the modmodmod as Russia (thus having minimal influence on following events):

Spoiler NSFW! :

1) Catholicism was founded in Ireland
2) England isn't real, it can't hurt natives (seemingly Normandy failed to conquer Britain from the Norse, and the Danelaw persisted well to XX century)
3) France kept collapsing and being conquered for entire game, respawning 2-3 times and almost immediately facing troubles again.
4) The Netherlands collapsed early, respawned and formed Benelux.
5) Spain became a vassal under Portugal for quite some time (possibly because Portugal performed competition-free conquest of Africa)

Also, i've unwisely aimed for Isolationism + Regulated Trade (the combo nuked my science), and with top1 country going isolationist and two top science nations (before Prussia and America at least) going offline the world barely managed to begin industrialisation by 1900'ies. I've failed UHV3 but honestly it was an amusing game. I must also mention that it might be the modmodmod problem, but Russia absolutely doesn't need Despotism: St. Basil + Theocracy + Clergy + Katorga = +8 per city with minimal investment is frankly absurd, and you pretty much never have to whip anything past initial, say, 50 turns.

 

[Crossphazer]

I must also mention that it might be the modmodmod problem, but Russia absolutely doesn't need Despotism: St. Basil + Theocracy + Clergy + Katorga = +8 per city with minimal investment is frankly absurd, and you pretty much never have to whip anything past initial, say, 50 turns.

Likely a problem with Base DoC, since I haven't touched St Basil or Katorga, and I had split the production bonus of Theocracy between Theocracy and Clergy, which if anything was a slight nerf in terms of production from civics.

The production bonus of Katorga might be too strong?