[submod] Cross' Overhaul: Wu, Bulgaria, Fatimids, Macedon, Iroquois, Armenia, Parthia, Minoans, Ghurids, Timurids, Khazars, Xia, Shu, Nigeria, Zulu

[Crossphazer]

Some Wonder can be Shia or Sunni. Dome of the Rock comes to mind, could we please change it? Also Al-Azhar University was founded by Shia Fatimids but functioning as a Sunni institution currently, if you ever implement it. Imam Reza Mosque, on the other hand, can be Shia only Wonder.

Wonders cannot be of multiple religions at once, at least not without modifying the wonders data structure. It's something I had already considered, and I need some time to think of a clean technical solution.

 

[Tigranes]

Modest +10% unit-building aid feels very underwhelming for Misr's UB , especially given 106% inflation they are facing pretty early on. Perhaps, we could also add -10% maintenance, like Commandery, please? Castles always had economic impact im medieval times. Loosing it after Urban Planning will simulate gradual Mamluk decline...

 

[Maggy_domain]

Modest +10% unit-building aid feels very underwhelming for Misr's UB , especially given 106% inflation they are facing pretty early on. Perhaps, we could also add -10% maintenance, like Commandery, please? Castles always had economic impact im medieval times. Loosing it after Urban Planning will simulate gradual Mamluk decline...

I also had a similar observation, but I haven't played after the Shia update. Basically, I first did a run where I failed to produce enough army to fend off crusades/mongols. The second run I succeeded by straight-up ignoring barracks, stables and UB and spam-building UUs. I will try on the new update cause it sounds very challenging to start in Tunisia and end up fighting the mongols. Very cool stuff!

 

[Crossphazer]

Modest +10% unit-building aid feels very underwhelming for Misr's UB , especially given 106% inflation they are facing pretty early on. Perhaps, we could also add -10% maintenance, like Commandery, please? Castles always had economic impact im medieval times. Loosing it after Urban Planning will simulate gradual Mamluk decline...

Yeah, I started modestly. I will improve the UB in some way in the near future.

 

[Crossphazer]

Wonders cannot be of multiple religions at once, at least not without modifying the wonders data structure. It's something I had already considered, and I need some time to think of a clean technical solution.

I did additional digging for this. There is actually a tag for this OrPrereqReligion which I was not aware of (I didn't make DoC, so there are often details I miss!). I will rectify the Sunni-Shia building issue. Some building will be specific to Shia or Sunni, but many could require either.

Will Misri spawn occur on my territory if I live beyond Carthage until the 10th century?

I think so, but I will rectify that.

 

[HNation]

Iran starts with no Shia Islam in their cities.

 

[Maggy_domain]

Also two additional comments after trying it out:
1) in 600AD start Misri seems to found Shia in spawn in Tunis.
2) I agree with @Tigranes that Misri might need to flip Egypt too. It takes 10 turns to walk your army to Alexandria from Tunis. Makes the UHVs unreachable

 

[Tigranes]

Also two additional comments after trying it out:
1) in 600AD start Misri seems to found Shia in spawn in Tunis.
2) I agree with @Tigranes that Misri might need to flip Egypt too. It takes 10 turns to walk your army to Alexandria from Tunis. Makes the UHVs unreachable

Well, the first UHV checks in 1300, and I spend my starting gold on building roads. And I never meant flipping Egypt -- just everything between Egypt and Morocco. It is fun to fight over Egypt, like they did in real life. It took me ages to build a capital in Cairo -- I wish human players could benefit from the same courtesy AI is enjoying with Istanbul, Ctesiphon, etc: automatic Palace relocation. Anyway, here is my Empire after scoring my UHV1 on Marathon/Monarch:

Compare it with real life 970 AD Shia Caliphate:

Imagine a world without Jerusalem, with Alexandria being the new spiritual center ( I think Sea People razed it). Anyway, as you can see, I am losing 53 gold with 100% Tax thanks to my UP and 126% Inflation. Mongols and Crusades struck almost at the same time, with Portuguese and English Crusaders targeting my vassal Morocco. I really think they must be targeting Holy Cities instead...

 

[Crossphazer]

Well, the first UHV checks in 1300, and I spend my starting gold on building roads. And I never meant flipping Egypt -- just everything between Egypt and Morocco. It is fun to fight over Egypt, like they did in real life. It took me ages to build a capital in Cairo -- I wish human players could benefit from the same courtesy AI is enjoying with Istanbul, Ctesiphon, etc: automatic Palace relocation. Anyway, here is my Empire after scoring my UHV1 on Marathon/Monarch:

View attachment 709277

Compare it with real life 970 AD Shia Caliphate:
View attachment 709275

Imagine a world without Jerusalem, with Alexandria being the new spiritual center ( I think Sea People razed it). Anyway, as you can see, I am losing 53 gold with 100% Tax thanks to my UP and 126% Inflation. Mongols and Crusades struck almost at the same time, with Portuguese and English Crusaders targeting my vassal Morocco. I really think they must be targeting Holy Cities instead...

There were Crusades targeting almost every region in the Mediterranean including Tunisia and Egypt, it's just that Jerusalem is the most famous Crusader State.

Edit:
I will make palaces much cheaper. I think it should be easy to relocate a capital. All civs will be able to benefit from that.

 

[Crossphazer]

Also two additional comments after trying it out:
1) in 600AD start Misri seems to found Shia in spawn in Tunis.
2) I agree with @Tigranes that Misri might need to flip Egypt too. It takes 10 turns to walk your army to Alexandria from Tunis. Makes the UHVs unreachable

Founding Shia in Tunis is the intended behavior at the moment.

I don't think not flipping Egypt compromises the UHV. You spawn 60 years sooner than in 970 despite having the same UHV goals as before. It's usually not difficult to take Egypt with the starting stack.

 

[Tigranes]

There were Crusades targeting almost every region in the Mediterranean including Tunisia and Egypt, it's just that Jerusalem is the most famous Crusader State.

Edit:
I will make palaces much cheaper. I think it should be easy to relocate a capital. All civs will be able to benefit from that.

It can take away from the Elective bonus, though. I am just saying that there should not be any difference between AI and human player in scripted capital relocations. Human player should not be able to abuse that mechanic.

 

[Alamart]

Interesting Misri spawn... Western Rome is alive, drove the Arabs out of Egypt and the Levant, vassalized a bunch of countries and now I have to fight with its huge stacks

 

[Tigranes]

Tamerlane appears as Turkestan the moment Mongols collapse (circa 1410s). But he behaves instead of attacking India and Ottomans. Perhaps he could inherit all the Mongolian units in his flipped cities and start at war with at least one civ?

 

[Crossphazer]

Tamerlane appears as Turkestan the moment Mongols collapse (circa 1410s). But he behaves instead of attacking India and Ottomans. Perhaps he could inherit all the Mongolian units in his flipped cities and start at war with at least one civ?

Inheriting units from a collapsed civ is complicated (I think Byzantium does something similar with Rome so I'll have to see how that was implemented) but I can probably increase the warmongering stats of the Tamerlane leaderhead as a start.

 

[Crossphazer]

Interesting Misri spawn... Western Rome is alive, drove the Arabs out of Egypt and the Levant, vassalized a bunch of countries and now I have to fight with its huge stacks

Wow, a stable Rome in 900 AD that is hugely powerful? I would like to have that save game so I can look at the game's history.

 

[Crossphazer]

It can take away from the Elective bonus, though. I am just saying that there should not be any difference between AI and human player in scripted capital relocations. Human player should not be able to abuse that mechanic.

For the majority of civs, moving the palace is not necessary or desirable. The bonus that elective grants for this is pretty weak. I don't see it as abusable, it just makes it cheaper to relocate the capital in games where your starting location is far from the center of the empire your civ is expected to acquire.

 

[Tigranes]

City of Genoa played important part in Global history, however current map has virtually zero chance for it to appear. If we simply swap Milan and Wheat, Genoa will appear every time Marseille is not settled. French can still settle a port city 1W of Marseille (I think it can be called Narbonne).

 

[Crossphazer]

City of Genoa played important part in Global history, however current map has virtually zero chance for it to appear. If we simply swap Milan and Wheat, Genoa will appear every time Marseille is not settled. French can still settle a port city 1W of Marseille (I think it can be called Narbonne).

Milan was important too. We can't fit every single important city of Europe into the map, there is just no room.

 

[Alamart]

Wow, a stable Rome in 900 AD that is hugely powerful? I would like to have that save game so I can look at the game's history.

 

[Crossphazer]

Iran starts with no Shia Islam in their cities.

I believe I may have rectified this with one of my changes, as this is what I get as Iran on spawn:

Spoiler :