[submod] Cross' Overhaul: Wu, Bulgaria, Fatimids, Macedon, Iroquois, Armenia, Parthia, Minoans, Ghurids, Timurids, Khazars, Xia, Shu, Nigeria, Zulu

[Tigranes]

Was Wu recently reborn? My guess is spawn protection; I can find a work around for that.

Well it was already on the map when I started as Mongols and it is 1270 now on Marathon. The protection cannot possibly last for one century, right? I think it is a bug, that's why I have attached the save.

 

[Landyn Linhares]

What if the Mayans respawned as the Centroamericans in San Salvador and Panama City. Ik its pushing it a little but I thought it might work

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Also, im aware that the later eras are an issue for another day... however I noticed that south americans were participating in colonization for some reason, and major players like the French, British, Spanish, and Russians were still in the Renaissance era in the 1870s

colombian east indies

argentinean senegal

 

[DianaTheCat]

Not sure if it's the base mod issue or specific to this version but when playing on marathon speed the Indus Valley civ ends up surviving a lot longer than it should, I'm approaching 0AD rn and it's still there and well; probly could use balancing, or India or Kushan getting armies spawned to destroy it if it's still there when they spawn.
Also catholicism seems to just not spawn sometimes, not sure why.
Also Jerusalem ends up razed sometimes, it's annoying.

 

[Crossphazer]

Also, im aware that the later eras are an issue for another day... however I noticed that south americans were participating in colonization for some reason, and major players like the French, British, Spanish, and Russians were still in the Renaissance era in the 1870s

colombian east indies


argentinean senegal

Settlers, or awarded from a congress?

As for tech progress in 1870, before I go about adding other civs or doing any major feature work, I'll run some Canada autoplays to get better feeling for it. While the game past 1900 is currently out of scope for what I'm balancing, I do want the tech rate to be as expected in the late 1800s.

Not sure if it's the base mod issue or specific to this version but when playing on marathon speed the Indus Valley civ ends up surviving a lot longer than it should, I'm approaching 0AD rn and it's still there and well; probly could use balancing, or India or Kushan getting armies spawned to destroy it if it's still there when they spawn.
Also catholicism seems to just not spawn sometimes, not sure why.
Also Jerusalem ends up razed sometimes, it's annoying.

I only play and test on Epic. I simply do not have the time to playtest and balance the mod on all speeds. I will probably disable the other speeds so I don't get feedback which I can't make use of at the moment. Maybe if the mod is ever truly "finished", in that every civ I intend to add is included, as well as any other features, I will give Normal or Marathon a balancing pass.

Catholism not spawning is probably the result of a large Byzantine empire. Are you saying it never spawns? Because at least by about 1200 to 1400, with the population sizes of western and central Europe, and the downfall of the Byzantines, you really should see the birth of Catholism in the worst case.

Occasional razing of Jerusalem I don't consider a big deal, as long as it isn't consistently the case.

Also, yes, I am still alive, just took a bit of a break after pushing out a lot of major content updates for the mod. The next few patches will be balance and bugfix related.

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Settlers, or awarded from a congress?

As for tech progress in 1870, before I go about adding other civs or doing any major feature work, I'll run some Canada autoplays to get better feeling for it. While the game past 1900 is currently out of scope for what I'm balancing, I do want the tech rate to be as expected in the late 1800s.

I believe it was from a congress since the newly spawned south American nations (who start off in the industrial age) are so much more advanced than the Europeans (many of which remain stuck in the Renaissance). This allowed these countries that shouldn't be that powerful to sneak into the world congresses

 

[Crossphazer]

I believe it was from a congress since the newly spawned south American nations (who start off in the industrial age) are so much more advanced than the Europeans (many of which remain stuck in the Renaissance). This allowed these countries that shouldn't be that powerful to sneak into the world congresses

Okay cool, thanks for the answer. Techrate balancing for Europe should fix this.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch (it's been a while)

• Update Crusades to consider Shia as Islamic
  • Fix exception error when delegating crusade to another civ
• Change Marathon and Normal game speed text to inform users that they are untested and unbalanced.
  • Now it is clear when starting a game that these speeds are formally unsupported and are played at one's own risk

 

[Crossphazer]

Another larger patch:

• Make western Tibet more hospitable
  • Add lake, plains, sheep to western Tibet.
  • Rename city tile of western Tibet to Kyunglung
• Add more stability synergies or penalties for civic combinations (too many to list here, open the civics menu to view the changes)
• Remove distance modifier bonus from monarchy, move to Elective and increase to 50% distance modifier bonus.
• Add 10 free units for maintenance costs for Elective civic.
• Add -1 commerce penalty to many specialists under Despotism.
• Remove Byzantium from "independence civs" (Byz will still not spawn if Rome is human and stability is solid)
• Fix the code that was supposed to make Norse much more resistant to religious spread prior to their adoption of a state religion.

 

[Tigranes]

Leoreth has implemented many common sense fixes, and while civics may conflict with your choices the rest should improve the game, especially produce a strong Spain.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch

• Khazars added
  • Bulan leader
  • Shares Oghuz UU with Turks, for now
  • Lighthouse UU with extra trade routes (silk road port)
  • UHVs around religion, diplomacy, and general survival (3 golden ages by 1300s)
  • Revival as Golden Horde
    • That part needs to be fleshed out a bit more
• Clear Harappa before India birth.
  • This was the base behaviour in DoC; I had removed that constraint to observe Harappa's behaviour, but for now it is best if cleared before India's birth
• All base DoC patches merged into the branch
  • All conflicts resolved
  • Notable differences:
    • Only keep some of the civic changes
      • Notably, keep vassalage the way it was (synergy with Monarchy is what makes it more competitive compared to Despotism in my submod)
    • Lengthen Medieval era on epic and marathon speeds to match his change to normal speed.
      • I don't extensively follow the reasoning behind changes in DoC; I assume that Leoreth considers Normal speed to be the 'default' version for balancing?
  • However, I have not extensively confirmed how these changes affect the balance or if they cause additional bugs

Consider this version a preview of the Khazars and of the resynchronization with DoC.

 

[Tigranes]

Yes, Normal/Regent are the default settings for vanilla DoC.

Golden Horde is too close in time compared with regular Rise of Mongols to be Khazar respawn. It was also relatively short lived. Mongols are around for just 200 years, not enough time to be represented by all 4 successor Khanates. Crimea Khanate, on the other hand, survived all the way until Catherine the Great. They may interfere with Ottoman UHV, but they were major thorn in Russian side for a very long time ( 1441–1783) and could be a better candidate for Khazar respawn. RFCE has an amazing civ ready to borrow -- I really enjoyed playing them back in the day!

 

[Apple111111]

Is it possible you could change Nubia's ability now that it's the same as the Khazar one? I'm guessing UHVs are meant to be completely different from each other so maybe Nubia could get something else.

 

[Crossphazer]

Is it possible you could change Nubia's ability now that it's the same as the Khazar one? I'm guessing UHVs are meant to be completely different from each other so maybe Nubia could get something else.

It was not deliberately made the same, simply overlooked. I'll check how Nubia implements their UP. Between the two of them I think the lack of religious penalty is better suited to Khazars than Nubia, whose gameplay is mostly prior to the rise of Islam anyhow.

 

[Tigranes]

A sight for the sore eyes! AI took a long time (450 years?) spreading culture to that 1E Tundra tile, in order to move the Settler, but it was finally done. Wild Tibetan yaks are native to the Himalayan Mountains of Nepal and Tibet -- would have been so cool if we could find a model and use it via resource variety feature for that Cow. You know, like Sheep looking as llamas in Andes.

Is there any way to change Khazar color to, say, white? (Japan is very far away...) The reason being that neighboring Ruthenians and even Turks have somewhat similar colors.

 

[Apple111111]

Here's my suggestion for a Nubian UP. (Vaguely inspired by the 'vaults' UP that Civ Reborn had for Nubia).

+50% production towards growth and military buildings in cities with stone.

The code (in the getProductionModifier() function in CvCity.cpp would be as follows...)

if (getCivilizationType() == NUBIA)
{
if (hasBonus((BonusTypes)BONUS_STONE))
{
if (GC.getBuildingInfo(eBuilding).getAdvisorType() == ADVISOR_GROWTH || GC.getBuildingInfo(eBuilding).getAdvisorType() == ADVISOR_MILITARY)
{
iMultiplier += 50;
}
}
}

(I'll need to test to make sure this works but yeah)

Edit: Yep it works. I moved it to the same location as the HRE UP for consistency, and changed the GameTextMgr file to display it on the interface the same way HRE UP is displayed. I’m gonna be using this in my mod, idk if you wanna do the same.

 

[Triquetra]

Suggestion: make Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, and Taoism act like Judaism when they spread to cities with a pagan temple (i.e. they don't cause it to be abandoned and the temples can coexist). The reasoning I give for this is that these religions are much more syncretic with local beliefs compared to more "exclusivist" religions like Christianity or Zoroastrianism.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch

• Change Nubian UP to be bonus relations from peacetime
• Extra Khazar dynamic name: Crimean Khanate in renaissance era if resurrected
• Change leaderhead name of Khazars for the Tatar states.
• Nubia starts without Despotism by default (a lot of upkeep for nothing for that civ).
• Give chariots cover promotion by default (the hard counter for chariots should be spears, not archers).
  • Make chariots heavy cavalry, except Egyptian (and unused Celtic) chariots which stay light cavalry.
  • Horsemen get a specific bonus against chariots, as part of making chariots rapidly obsolete.
• Remove settler map value for Harappa in Afghanistan; give them a few extra tiles to the north of the capital.
• Based on feedback I address below:
  • Add plains to bridge western Tibet with eastern Tibet
  • Flip Khazar colors to white and blue instead of blue and white.

Suggestion: make Buddhism, Hinduism, Confucianism, and Taoism act like Judaism when they spread to cities with a pagan temple (i.e. they don't cause it to be abandoned and the temples can coexist). The reasoning I give for this is that these religions are much more syncretic with local beliefs compared to more "exclusivist" religions like Christianity or Zoroastrianism.

This would allow for stacking of a +1 happiness +2 culture bonus in addition to those granted by temples. Additional sources of happiness have to be considered very carefully, as happiness is mostly the limit on population size.

A sight for the sore eyes! AI took a long time (450 years?) spreading culture to that 1E Tundra tile, in order to move the Settler, but it was finally done. Wild Tibetan yaks are native to the Himalayan Mountains of Nepal and Tibet -- would have been so cool if we could find a model and use it via resource variety feature for that Cow. You know, like Sheep looking as llamas in Andes.

Is there any way to change Khazar color to, say, white? (Japan is very far away...) The reason being that neighboring Ruthenians and even Turks have somewhat similar colors.

I'll make that tundra tile into a plains for easier passage.
An entirely new resource model for a single niche animal is excessive in my opinion.
I will try white-on-blue for the Khazars, although I don't think the shade of blue conflicted with its neighbours.

 

[Crossphazer]

I am aware of a recent change that I made that causes Byzantium to not have its expanded flip on Roman cities of the east. A patch should be out shortly. I will edit this post to write the patch notes.

New Patch

• Refine some Pontic steppe barbarian spawn zones.
• Constrain Byzantium's extended flip to only flip Roman cities. The core will still flip any civ, as per default rules.
• Byzantium added back to "independence civs" because its expanded flip code depends on it.
• Demote Vandalic lancers to Savarans (Alanic/Sarmatian lancers).
• Undo the merge change that affected preserveCivilizationAttributes.
• Tweak Tibetan settling priorities
• Buff Byzantine AI starting units
• Add indy Novogorod prior to Rus spawn but only if Norse player is not human
• Add 2 Huskarls to Rus spawn.
• Lower number of Khazar settlers by 1 (3 to 2).
• Tweak settler map for Khazars (remove some tiles in Ruthenia spawn).
• Make Venice spawn as barbarian so it doesn't get razed in its early history.

 

[Crossphazer]

New Patch

• Move Denmark, Sweden and Norway back to historical catholicism influence
  • Now that the Norse resistance to religion until 950 AD is correctly implemented, these regions can be changed to their original religious influence.
  • This should help trigger the Catholic-Orthodox schism sooner, since there are more "future Catholic cities" to check against.