[submod] Cross' Overhaul (Wu, Bulgaria, Muslim-Egypt, Macedon, Iroquois, Armenia, Parthia, Minoans, Ghurids, Timurids)

[Crossphazer]

New patch:

• Alter modifiers of many civs to get more historical tech progression by 1776 (usually nerfs)
  • Increase cost of industrial techs & later eras by about 10 to 15 percent
• Academia (Protestantism founding tech) is cheaper, so Protestantism should be founded earlier
  • Scientific method was made more expensive, to compensate
  • It is now less likely that the Netherlands is consistently the one founding Protestantism on spawn
  • The earlier that Protestantism is founded, the earlier the crusades end. We ideally do not want crusades in the mid 1500s in most (typical) games
• Buff late antique western barbarians
• Add a few missing names from name maps.
• Remove all early colonist events except for Carthage's founding (or reinforcements for an already founded city).
• Add plains+horses north of Parthian capital.
• Egypt can respawn up to -100 (Ptolemaic).
• Nerf starting gold for many civs.
• Nerf some starting tech amounts.
• Parthian capital relocates to Ctesiphon on capture.

 

[RustyBrick]

I just finished a game, winning as both the Minoans/Greeks, I've also won as Bulgaria earlier. I like both the directions this and the other sub-mod have gone in depicting the Greek world, while they're different I find them both really unique/fun.


Minoans: I ended up razing Jerusalem since it was the only barbarian city at the time and hadn't spawned Judaism yet. I then tried to warmonger for great generals but I realized I could just get great people by conquering Memphis so I did that.

Spoiler :

Greeks: It's nice to look westward in a Greek game instead of only to the East. I will say the settlers at the start are a bit much, I think maybe 2 would be ok. You get spread too thin, with no workers/military, and your economy tanks. I think the UP also makes the settlers redundant but thats just my 2 cents. The Celts also flipped Marseille which I was not expecting.

Spoiler :

Parthia does seem broken atm too, this is what they look like a few turns after spawn.

Spoiler :

 

[Crossphazer]

I just finished a game, winning as both the Minoans/Greeks, I've also won as Bulgaria earlier. I like both the directions this and the other sub-mod have gone in depicting the Greek world, while they're different I find them both really unique/fun.


Minoans: I ended up razing Jerusalem since it was the only barbarian city at the time and hadn't spawned Judaism yet. I then tried to warmonger for great generals but I realized I could just get great people by conquering Memphis so I did that.

Spoiler :

View attachment 708168

Greeks: It's nice to look westward in a Greek game instead of only to the East. I will say the settlers at the start are a bit much, I think maybe 2 would be ok. You get spread too thin, with no workers/military, and your economy tanks. I think the UP also makes the settlers redundant but thats just my 2 cents. The Celts also flipped Marseille which I was not expecting.

Spoiler :

View attachment 708167

Parthia does seem broken atm too, this is what they look like a few turns after spawn.

Spoiler :

View attachment 708166

Thank you for the feedback on the games!

Good assessment on the Greek settler amount. I will probably shift some of those to the AI-only spawn. I will have to re-evaluate how that affects the difficulty of the UHV.

What do you mean by "broken" Parthia? Judging by the screenshot, it seems you're playing as the Greeks, and likely the Macedonians never got the invasion of the Persian Empire off the ground? In that case, the Parthians will have an easy time with their spawn. Since Upper Mesopotamia is in their core (even if not in their spawn rectangle), they can flip it from indies or barbarians. The culture "void" is their core area; when a civ spawns, independent culture is cleared within a civ's core.

 

[Tigranes]

It's more like Macedonians often get conquerors very late, circa 250 BC instead of ~320. How does this work actually? Is there a time range? How can we ensure that Parthia fights Macedon and not Persia?

 

[Crossphazer]

It's more like Macedonians often get conquerors very late, circa 250 BC instead of ~320. How does this work actually? Is there a time range?

It's based on a time range, a date with a random variance (+/- 5 turns)
iStartTurn = year(iYear) + turns(data.iSeed % 10 - 5)

5 turn variance is probably a little high, so I'm reducing it to 3 turns in a later patch.

How can we ensure that Parthia fights Macedon and not Persia?

We don't. Parthians and Persians are not the same group. If Alexander the Great was not around, the Persians would still have Indo-Iranians tribes to their north to contend with.

 

[Crossphazer]

(suggested Dawn of Men text for Parthia).

May I also humbly suggest to energize the arrival of Parthians by the following steps: (1) start at war with Macedon, (2) replace 2 initial Horsemen with a little bit anachronistic UU, (3) flip Bactria and Sogdiana cities. (4) Increase starting gold to 100 (Armenia starts with 60 and Parthia was much stronger)

Added DoM text for the next patch.

 

[Crossphazer]

New patch

• Remove Lydia from Greek spawn area
• Move a starting Greek settler to the AI
• Reduce conquest variance from +/- 5 turns to 3
• Add Parthia DoM text.
• Revise the name of the tag for the "Wu" DoM.
• Make Parthian UHV easier.
• Cho Ko Nu requires Machinery like regular crossbowmen (don't want China getting them too early).
• Reduce barbarian pressure in the west in late antiquity (still higher than it was before).

 

[Tigranes]

Koreans discover Civil Liberties on or before Dutch birth, which fails first UHV. It seems that there are always problems because of Korean and Japan tech speed.

Can we also discuss Italians please? While Milan makes sense as a capital to represent middle ground amongst different Italian polities, Venice was always the most powerful Italian state, influencing the rest. Gamewise it can benefit to start Italians with capital in Venice. As added bonus it will ensure the lagoon will actually get a city. Romans always found Padua 1N and it blocks La Serenissima... One of the few cases where I would support razing a city to found a capital: historically Venice started when Huns razed Aquileia.

​

 

[Tigranes]

I was thinking about humourous diplo intro text for Mithridates I. Not so many quotes from him, just coin inscriptions, like this one: ΒΑΣΙΛΕΩΣ ΜΕΓΑΛΟΥ ΑΡΣΑΚΟΥ ΦΙΛΕΛΛΗΝΟΣ.

I am Mithridates Arsacid, King of Kings, Greek-loving! I do love my Greeks, alright, provided they become loyal Parthian subjects. Just ask my royal captive Demetrius, who got golden children's toys from me!

(After royal prisoner Seleucid King Demetrius was captured when he tried to escape, Mithridates humiliated him by giving him a golden set of dice, thus hinting that Demetrius II was a restless child who needed toys.)

 

[Crossphazer]

Koreans discover Civil Liberties on or before Dutch birth, which fails first UHV. It seems that there are always problems because of Korean and Japan tech speed.

Can we also discuss Italians please? While Milan makes sense as a capital to represent middle ground amongst different Italian polities, Venice was always the most powerful Italian state, influencing the rest. Gamewise it can benefit to start Italians with capital in Venice. As added bonus it will ensure the lagoon will actually get a city. Romans always found Padua 1N and it blocks La Serenissima... One of the few cases where I would support razing a city to found a capital: historically Venice started when Huns razed Aquileia.

​

I'll look into the Korean and Japanese tech rate and at Italy.

 

[Landyn Linhares]

It would be nice if the medieval Italian ai was also more inclined to take over islands and coastal cities in the eastern Mediterranean to represent Venice and Genoa

 

[Tigranes]

It would be nice if the medieval Italian ai was also more inclined to take over islands and coastal cities in the eastern Mediterranean to represent Venice and Genoa

Venice could even flip new Crete. It stays Indy entire game

 

[Maggy_domain]

just let me know if this subthread is a safespace to start pandering about that V-word civ again

 

[Landyn Linhares]

One of the few cases where I would support razing a city to found a capital: historically Venice started when Huns razed Aquileia.

hear me out what if there was a hunnic civ that respawned as the khazars and could become the golden horde after the mongol collapse. . . .

 

[Crossphazer]

New patch:

• Re-introduced Greek colonization waves; this is mostly so that the first wave can settle Byzantium, and subsequent waves can target places in the Black Sea. Previously, since they all spawned at once, none of them targeted the Black Sea coast.
• Persia gets Contract on start, so it immediately has the option to vassalize other civs
• Persia no longer gets the "you are too powerful for us" refusal for vassalization
  • The whole point of their UHV is to give them a big perceived power boost for getting vassals, so this defeats the point!
• Removed condition that would prevent a civ capitulating to another civ that was birth protected
  • Just because a civ is birth protected doesn't mean another civ shouldn't become a vassal!
    • If there are any edge cases to this for specific civs that are meant to only conquer and not subjugate, I will add civ-specific exemptions
• Civs have less strict denial of capitulation conditions in the ancient and classical eras
  • "average power" used to calculate if a civ should capitulate are less reliable in the ancient and classical eras, when there are a lot less civs around
• Greek city-states name takes preference over Empire name if they have the Republic civic.
• A couple tiles in Thrace between Pella and Byzantium are no longer on the Greek settler map
• Persian maintenance modifiers buffed (frequently running into negative treasury at 0% due to the number of low population cities)
• Better condition for switch from Cyrus to Darius leader for Persia (used to be "on empire", which is triggered quite quickly for Persia)
  • If Assyria and Babylonia are dead, switch to Darius
• Persia UHV tweaks (include vassals in population percent count, less wonders, include vassals in wonder count)

More generally:
I am in balancing and bug-fixing mode, although I read and consider all the other suggestions.

 

[Maggy_domain]

I just tried out Misr and I was wondering if it's intended the UHV1 'middle east control' excludes the Mongols. Basically, I currently find difficult to win as 2-5 turns before 1300 mongols spawn and flip Baghdad. I can't dow them thanks to spawn protection

 

[Crossphazer]

I just tried out Misr and I was wondering if it's intended the UHV1 'middle east control' excludes the Mongols. Basically, I currently find difficult to win as 2-5 turns before 1300 mongols spawn and flip Baghdad.

Yes, it is intended. Mongols are not part of the Middle East.

I can't dow them thanks to spawn protection

That is unfortunate. I will add Misr and a number of Muslim civs to the "war on spawn" list of the Mongols, to avoid this issue. Thanks for reporting it.

 

[Crossphazer]

New patch:

• Start Mongols at war with Turks and other Muslims.
• Add Mongol respawn period for the Later Yuan period.
• Add much bigger Manchu barbarian spawns, unless China (North) is alive.
• Slight buff to the frequency of the regular Manchu barbarian spawns, even if China is alive.

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Are there any plans on updating the 600 AD and 1700 AD scenarios?

 

[Tigranes]

May I suggest for Theodosian Walls to require Palace ( which makes historical sense). Otherwise, Byzantium is building it in some random city and Bulgaria captures Constantinople with an ease.

Also what is the reason that you prefer Tagmata to Varangian Guard name? Tagmata was offensive elite unit of Byzantine nobility but defensive Varangian Guards were loyal to Emperor only. They have more flavor, you can even use Berserker skin and trigger them upon contact with actual Norse civilization...