[submod] Cross' Overhaul (Wu, Bulgaria, Muslim-Egypt, Macedon, Iroquois, Armenia, Parthia, Minoans, Ghurids, Timurids)

[Triquetra]

Well, the issue with a civilization like Hopewell, which is the same issue for, say, Bronze or Iron age Northern European cultures, is that they aren't really organized at a level of urbanization and hierarchy that would form something playable as a civ. To the degree that any exceptions are made, like with the Turks, or Celts, it is their interactions with other civs that make them a notable addition.

I think perhaps a culture like the Iroquois would be more fitting. They had an agricultural revolution that was allowing for larger populations and then they came into direct contact with Europeans (i.e. other civs). It would be tricky to handle going from the beginning of the tech tree (more or less) to getting the tech for firearms. Maybe a UP that spawns that arquebusier UU that the Native civ has when sharing borders with Europeans. Definitely a bit of a tricky one, but probably doable.

An Iroquois civ would be great too! Though on the points of urbanization, I'd point to Cahokia as an example of the Hopewell culture establishing a large city, which probably needed some kind of hierarchy in place to function.

 

[Crossphazer]

An Iroquois civ would be great too! Though on the points of urbanization, I'd point to Cahokia as an example of the Hopewell culture establishing a large city, which probably needed some kind of hierarchy in place to function.

It's more than just population size, it also has to do with it being plausible to start unlocking columns of the tech tree; if a culture has not developed writing, math, armies, kingship, literature, monumental stone architecture, and other things that qualify as "techs" in civ4, or at least is not in a position to borrow those advancements from a neighbour, it's hard to justify it taking a player slot in the game (particularly after 1000 AD when Europe and Asia get fairly crowded in terms of active players). But as with the Iroquois there are cultures out there that are interesting because of the potential interactions with other civs.

 

[IrishDragon]

Edit2:
Regarding Varangians, I recall a Tagmata UU with 0 movement in Constantinople in a mod. Was it RFCE? It's been years. I wouldn't be opposed to such a UU. Probably a heavy spearman UU, that is in the XML but not assigned to Byzantium itself, which it receives 1 or 2 of on spawn in Constantinople.

In a similar vein, someone create a Troy civ that could be scavenged to add some variety to an indy Troy city

 

[Crossphazer]

In a similar vein, someone create a Troy civ that could be scavenged to add some variety to an indy Troy city

Well if you want to do so, you can make it work with the current version: Troy was a client city-state of the Hittites; if you want to play as Troy, play as the Hittites and found Wilusha (Ilion/Troy).

 

[Tigranes]

Baghdad was Caliphate's capital longer than any other city, and even if anachronistic, I suggest it be favored instead of Damascus. Simply renaming Babylon does the trick. Even with larger map it is still too small to depict all the intricacies of the Levant.

Also destroying cities to form new ones is such a clumsy and unnatural mechanics. I think about Amsterdam - Rotterdam, Washington -Philadelphia and other cases. Previous efforts should not be simply erased. Is there any command to simply relocate a city offending 1 tile separation rule, please?

 

[Crossphazer]

Baghdad was Caliphate's capital longer than any other city, and even if anachronistic, I suggest it be favored instead of Damascus. Simply renaming Babylon does the trick. Even with larger map it is still too small to depict all the intricacies of the Levant.

Also destroying cities to form new ones is such a clumsy and unnatural mechanics. I think about Amsterdam - Rotterdam, Washington -Philadelphia and other cases. Previous efforts should not be simply erased. Is there any command to simply relocate a city offending 1 tile separation rule, please?

The capital relocates to Baghdad when the civ changes dynamic names from Umayyad to Abbasid.

As to razing cities on capital foundation, I sympathize, and am considering the following:

For Netherlands I am considering adding a land tile 1N of current Amsterdam so that a city that already exists in Belgium or Northern France doesn't get destroyed. I can't just refuse to raze a city, it might put the Netherlands inland with a city like Nijmegen which would totally screw both a human or AI player over.

For USA it's probably a settler map issue. I just need to alter the settler priorities for a few colonial civs to found on the spot of Washington rather than 1 tile around it.

For Damascus, I'm solving the issue now with some name map trickery and shifting the Phoenician spawn 1 east to the Damascus tile. Also replacing indie Aleppo (Halab) with Antioch/Ugarit. That will avoid the razing issue and offer a bit better city placement / distance. A hill and clam has been shifted in position. A fish was added north of Cyprus, accessible from Antioch or a city in lower Anatolia. Cyprus' copper hill was given a mine and road from the start, otherwise that copper doesn't come online until well past the Bronze Age. Phoenicia's late start points would often build the mine, but the copper is not in the new capital's BFC anymore.

 

[climat]

The capital relocates to Baghdad when the civ changes dynamic names from Umayyad to Abbasid.

Shouldn't it be done when the Moors are spawned?
It is odd to see Umayyads and Caliphate of Córdoba co-exist.

 

[Crossphazer]

Shouldn't it be done when the Moors are spawned?
It is odd to see Umayyads and Caliphate of Córdoba co-exist.

Yes, the dynamic name change from Umayyads to Abbasids happens when the Moors spawn. At that time, the capital is relocated to Baghdad if they control it (they usually do).

 

[IrishDragon]

Well if you want to do so, you can make it work with the current version: Troy was a client city-state of the Hittites; if you want to play as Troy, play as the Hittites and found Wilusha (Ilion/Troy).

Ah I mistyped, I mean somebody already created a Troy civ that included Trojan walls and a UU, that could be given to a possible indie city. Just throwing out ideas, it could be founded as an independent city not long after 3000 BC with access to the Trojan resouces to make it more unique, and perhaps be autorazed on capture by anyone except the Hittites or Independents. Would give it representation for a millenium or two and add some more interaction in Anatolia, while ensuring it doesn't interfere with later civs

 

[Landyn Linhares]

I think adding a Nigerian or Zimbabwe civilization to Africa would make it feel a little less dead

 

[Crossphazer]

I'm continuing to add to name maps and make small tweaks to civs like settler maps or starting units, but I've had a good experience playing through games to the late Medieval games, or doing Dutch autoplays. The game history is playing out as intended but with interesting variations based on which cities are conquered by whom and when certain civs collapse.

 

[CivEnthusiast]

I'm certainly going to give this submod a try once it's stable enough during work and most of the crucial things that have ever been desired to be implemented are in place aka a submod is more less "finalized"

 

[Crossphazer]

Just added the Iroquois civ. It's playable, and so far doesn't seem to affect the European colonisation too much, which was the goal. The UHV is probably too hard, I have not tuned it at all. In order for the culture of their capital to not cover most of the North-East of America, I had to nerf their palace so that it does not provide +2 culture. You can still grow your culture with pagan temples or other early tech culture buildings.

Armenia to come later. On the topic of African civs, maybe the Zulu (they already exist in Civ 4, so that's an easy one!), but I need to check that active civ limit, if we are hitting it around 1600-1900 and what raising it would do to the game (is there a technical limitation? memory limitation? turn time impact? etc)

 

[Landyn Linhares]

i would imagine raising the civ limit would make waiting in-between turns longer but I don't imagine its a technical limitation as there is a mod for vanilla that raises the limit to 40, 34 regular civs and 6 colony civs

 

[Landyn Linhares]

Also the Iroquois civ name should probably be Haudenosaunee as that is what they refer to themselves as

 

[Crossphazer]

Also the Iroquois civ name should probably be Haudenosaunee as that is what they refer to themselves as

For the majority of existing civs, their civ name is in English (Dutch, Austria, Roman Empire, Arabia, China etc). I chose "Misr" for Egypt because the Egypt civ already existed, but in game, it either uses a dynastic name, or it is called "Egypt" in the industrial era and beyond.

 

[Publicola]

Can you post the outline of each civ that you're adding or have added to this modmod? I think the list currently includes South China, Bulgaria, Misr, Macedon, and Iroquois, but there may be others I've missed. I'd really like to be able to check them out before installing and playing.

Something like Leoreth's post here would be ideal

• Assyria
  • Birth: 2600 BC
  • Leader: Ashurbanipal
  • Unique Units:
    • Siege Ram (Catapult): -1 strength, no collateral damage, requires Leverage
    • Azmaru (Spearman): +50% city attack
  • Unique Building: Kalliu (Stable): +1 trade route
  • Unique Power: First Empire: no resistance in conquered cities

 

[Steb]

May I also recommend posting a few screenshots?

 

[Lokki242]

For the majority of existing civs, their civ name is in English (Dutch, Austria, Roman Empire, Arabia, China etc). I chose "Misr" for Egypt because the Egypt civ already existed, but in game, it either uses a dynastic name, or it is called "Egypt" in the industrial era and beyond.

As (annoyingly, sorry) a Canadian historian I really encourage the use of Haudenosaunee at least alongside, if not instead of, Iroqouis. It is one thing for us to call Germany, well, Germany in English--few Germans mind. The Haudenosaunee mind. They really, really prefer the use of their actual nation name when possible. And as someone who was introduced to bits of history throughout my entire life by video games (that would spur actual research and learning), what harm comes from potentially introducing their actual name to a slightly wider but still niche audience of history game nerds? If the Age of Empires III re-release can do it, mods for Civ 4 can!

Also speaking on Zulu; they are a classic, but there's a framework for Chad/Nigeria in 1SDANi's old mod and those polities have a larger temporal timeline than the Zulu, who while awesome, are somewhat over-represented due to their reputation in the Anglo consciousness.

Lastly I have to admit, echoing some others who maybe would like options, I haven't tried this yet because it's divided between additions I love (Misr, Bulgaria, Mediterranean reworks, Haudenosaunee) and ones that just don't work for me (separate Macedon, China divided North-South). I think it's a really great project though, and hope any notes I provide are still useful (and even better, easy to ignore since I'm not the target base rn LOL)

 

[Apple111111]

I'm trying to mod in a civ in base RFC DOC, and I'm getting an issue where tiles in cities are somehow becoming 400000% barbarian. I've seen the glitch reported a few times, but nobody mentioned a solution...

Do you know how you dealt with it for this mod?