Succession Game for Newbies

[TheOverseer714]

I am starting a Succession Game that is aimed at people newish to this site, including myself, to improve skills for Civ 3 Conquests players. I would like to make it a training day game, but we'll need a trainer for that. The skill levels I am looking at are in the Regent to Emperor range. I want to start out un-modded games at first, then may start modded games if theres an interest in that direction. If you are interested in joining, just post here.

 

[Kumquat]

Regent to Emperor... mind if I join?

 

[gmaharriet]

lurker's comment: You might get more response if you gave some idea of what you have in mind...difficulty level, map type and size, victory condition?

 

[TheOverseer714]

Heya Kumquat, I'll put you in whichever spot you want, just tell me where you want to to be, 1st to 6th. Welcome aboard! To Gmaharriet, I thank you, and right now I'd say Large to Huge Map, Conquest or Domination (who really wants to go to Alpha Centauri or be UN General Secretary, anyway?) When enough people join, we will vote on who to play as. Difficulty level, I think we'll start at Monarch (since I just got whooped at Emperor). Then again that can change, depending on who joins.

 

[Kumquat]

I will play 3rd and monarch is good

 

[Othniel]

Hey. I'd enjoy giving this a crack if you're ok with that

I might be able to function as the trainer as I'm a regular demigod/deity player and have 3 deity victories under my belt. However, I've never played a Succession game before, and I don't have much of a clue as to what the trainer actually does. As long as the time commitment is not TOO long, I'd like to try...or at least be a player if you want another trainer.

I have been following quite closely the threads for the SGOTM 12, so I'm familiar with the succession game format and I'm excited to get my feet wet in a low-key game. Anyhow, let me know either way.

Oh yeah, I've also been a member for less than a year, so I qualify on that count.

 

[TheOverseer714]

Welcome aboard! Basically, if we change it to a Training Day game, you would start with the first 20 turns, then each other player would play 10, with you reviewing their turn log and the save after each player's turn. At just 10 turns, it is harder to irretrievably ruin a game, and shouldn't require a lengthy review. In a normal SG, it is 20 turns per player, with no review, except by lurkers and the other players It is up to you to decide whether you want to be a trainer, or just a player. I will try to add some links here to let you read up on SG's, and I will read more myself

This may be too basic, but it's the best I could find:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=14235

Some of these were from a long time back:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=55122

 

[Othniel]

I kinda like the sound of just being a player.

That said, knowing my own competitive nature, I'll be interested in reviewing the turn logs and giving feedback as needed. Should be fun and I have plenty to learn about the game myself.

So, how does this format sound: Let's play a normal succession game (no "training game") but we do so with a 20 turn initial round and then subsequent 10 turn rounds. That might be a middle-of-the-road solution and allow us to talk through the various decisions as they come up.

I'd be happy to play first if you want, or any other position in the playing order. No real preference there...

Oh, one more thing. I like the sound of a standard sized map, possibly up to large, just because they tend to be more balanced gameplay. But again, I'm flexible...

 

[TheOverseer714]

How about a Large map for the first go-around at Regent, and then later games at Emperor go Standard map? If you don't mind, I'll go ahead and place you second this time, unless you really, really want to go first. We need 1-3 more players and we can get this off the drawing board. I'm thinking of rules being pretty simple, I.E., found and name a city, it's yours and the rest keep it that way (Othnielopolis, Kumquat City, Overseer's Rest). If a previous player starts a tech, you see it through (I like to shoot for Republic slingshot, which takes more than a few turns and trade for the other AA techs). No government changes unless we all agree on which one, though it's usually a no-brainer (Despo>Republic). No screwing with trading rep is usually best, but razing is up to each player. We can discuss other stuff as it comes up. Oh, and I think we could just post our saves and screenshots here in this thread, rather than the laborious process outlined in the SG how-to that I saw. When you finsh your turn, just post the save here. I think it would be ok with site administration.

 

[gmaharriet]

Oh, and I think we could just post our saves and screenshots here in this thread, rather than the laborious process outlined in the SG how-to that I saw.

lurker's comment: You must have been reading the SGOTM rules. It's a competition between teams, so the rules are very specific. What you're suggesting for this game is typical of most SG's and what most of us actually do.

Your comments about research and government changes are right on and considered proper game etiquette, as are any mass changes in build orders. You are all a team here and should be deciding on objectives and strategies as a group, everyone helping to carry out the team decisions.

 

[Othniel]

Sounds good on me going second.

Overseer, do you want to find a suitable starting save and post a screenshot and map specs on this thread? We can then start some opening strategy discussion and it might also attract some other players. Pictures really do tell a thousand words.

Large map sounds fine. Also, I'm fine with any map settings and civ you choose, and if you want to hunt for a nice looking start rather than just the first randomly generated one.

Do you want to play at Regent or do you want to bump it one notch up (to Monarch??). IIRC Regent AI is on equal footing with us while the next notch up gives the AI a little bonus around 10% or so. It might be nice to challenge ourselves just a little bit more for the learning opportunities it provides. Whatever you decide is cool though, seriously.

Perhaps on the challenging note one other thing might be to avoid playing with a civ that has an early defensive UU, or an early UU for that matter entirely. I'm a bit of a warmonger (have to be at the higher levels) and it would be good practice to get an early rush on a nearby civ and not use a dominating UU to do it.

Once we can see the starting specs, I'd like to discuss some general victory objectives (conquest, space race, etc.) to get some overall direction for our gameplay. One quote "they" taught me at business school has stuck with me: "failure to plan is planning for failure." So let's plan to rock some AI world.

 

[CommandoBob]

lurker's comment:
Monarch is a good level to learn. And playing it in an SG is a lot easier than a solo game. Everyone will play a few turns at a time and concentrate on doing well on those turns. In a solo game, if you get sloppy, who cares?

I would recommend a Conquest victory over a Domination victory. Domination is easier to achieve but it also means that you are not required to raze cities, which will have to be done in a Conquest game. Conquest is also more fun, once your armies get rolling!

Not having an AA UU is a wise move. It will force you to pay more attention to your initial moves and builds and make you a bit less likely to declare war. Imagine playing as Rome and NOT starting a war once you got to Legionaries. Sorta tuff.

You may want to consider a civ that lacks an MA UU also. This limits your civ choices down to 4: Russia (SCI and EXP), US (IND and EXP), Germany (SCI and MIL) and Ottomans (SCI and IND). In turn, you have to play a smarter early game to make use of these later UUs and Golden Ages. Russia and Ottomans have Cavalry based UUs, Germany and America are Panzers and F-15s. All are late game bonuses; in effect all occur in the Modern Age.

I'll try to lurk this one. I'd love to join but I'm too SGed right now. Despite my post count, I am just now playing my 3rd solo Monarch level game!

 

[Othniel]

lurker's comment:
I'll try to lurk this one. I'd love to join but I'm too SGed right now. Despite my post count, I am just now playing my 3rd solo Monarch level game!

Hey, CB! I've been following Team Smurz in the SGOTM, so I understand why you might be a little busy... Best of wishes in that game and enjoy lurking.

You may want to consider a civ that lacks an MA UU also. This limits your civ choices down to 4: Russia (SCI and EXP), US (IND and EXP), Germany (SCI and MIL) and Ottomans (SCI and IND). In turn, you have to play a smarter early game to make use of these later UUs and Golden Ages. Russia and Ottomans have Cavalry based UUs, Germany and America are Panzers and F-15s. All are late game bonuses; in effect all occur in the Modern Age.

I agree. Maybe we could even try to avoid a GA at all, just for the challenge? Unless we go for a long-term victory objective like space, we might be able to finish the game before we ever get to the tech for our UU. Of course, we could always build wonders for the GA, but I definitely think that being wonder-happy is one habit we need to make sure to burn.

 

[Kumquat]

I am okay with most map settings but i do not want an archipelago map...I hate those I would also prefer a huge or large map The only Civs I do not want are America,Russia,Hittite,Zulu, and Mongolia...the rest are fine. Someone should go tell a few new players what a SG is

 

[Othniel]

I would also prefer a huge or large map

Just a curiosity question: is there a specific reason why you guys prefer the large or huge map sizes?

I know that there is a higher scoring multiple for those maps, but overall I just find that large maps tend to make for slow, drawn-out slugfests due to the high beaker cost for techs, the many AI opponents, and the vast tracts of land to settle before even finding an enemy civ... Can be kinda tedious, especially with all the micromanaging needed for quality play.

 

[Kumquat]

Hi Othniel! I am a trader/builder and rarely wage war so I huge maps with lots of people to trade with But you and TheOverseer seem to want to go and bonk some heads, so a huge would not be a good idea but a large map should be fine If you have your heart set on a boring standard sized map then maybe I will change my mind...maybe

 

[Othniel]

Hi Othniel! I am a trader/builder and rarely wage war so I huge maps with lots of people to trade with But you and TheOverseer seem to want to go and bonk some heads, so a huge would not be a good idea but a large map should be fine If you have your heart set on a boring standard sized map then maybe I will change my mind...maybe

Well, a large map seems like a nice compromise then.

If one of the main purposes of this game is to teach how to play at higher difficulties levels, then it's essential that we work some serious warmongering into our plans. I'm sure you know this, but it's worth mentioning again.
This doesn't mean we won't build infrastructure or fail to develop a strong core, but we need to do those things in the right time frame when it is efficient to do so.

That's also why we need to figure out our long term victory objectives because that will strongly affect the infrastructure we build. For instance, sorry on this , but unless we are trying for a culture game, widespread building of temples and cathedrals is probably useless unless we are doing some for border expansion. We can keep happiness in other ways and the shields and maintenance costs invested in these buildings would be a huge waste.

One of the keys, I've learned, to playing at higher levels is to take note of the effects of EVERY decision and how those decisions are are propelling us to our end victory goal, and then avoid any resource uses that don't help the end result. That can be time-consuming, and tedious, but its essential to improving our play.

Oh yeah, Civ is also played for fun too.

 

[Kumquat]

Oh yeah, Civ is also played for fun too.

Is there another way

 

[Tad Empire_0_o]

Hey you guys mind if I jion? I play monarch usually & im new 2 civ forms but I found out how 2 play SG =)

 

[TheOverseer714]

Large just seems what I am used to, and it seems like the map size is an additional difficulty factor in this game. Its like Large is skill level times .10-.20 and huge is .25-.40 more. Plus more potential trades. Othniel, you are correct about science costs and MM'ing being more difficult, and I will try to make a nice map, because I too hate lousy starting areas. I will try for at least a cow or 2 or some wheat near the starting area. Mystery is okay, but it'd suck to get IW and no Iron within 50 tiles! I gotta get off here, but thanks for the suggestions and comments.