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[R&F] Sudden increases in domestic tourism?

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Falk, Feb 20, 2018.

  1. Falk

    Falk Chieftain

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    I've had a strange experience in my recent game as France. I was playing for a cultural victory and doing reasonably well. Trajan and Peter were roughly ~140 points ahead of my tourism output when I started being serious about it. I was narrowing it down slowly, checking every couple of turns how fast I was closing the gap.

    So at one point I open the culture victory panel and notice that somehow suddenly I needed 260 foreign tourists to win when it had been only 230 foreign tourists like 3 turns earlier. I wondered how Trajan or Peter had accomplished that feat, but on closer inspection I realized that Korea had jumped from ~160 to ~260 domestic tourists within just a few turns (maybe 3-5 turns or something like that).

    How is that possible? Is it a bug? Has anyone experienced this before?

    Because playing culture games is entirely pointless until I figure out how such a thing can happen and what I can do about it.
     
  2. FractalAdvocate

    FractalAdvocate Chieftain

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    Without any other data, I'd guess Korea had a huge science output, and completed the Launch Moon Landing project, which gives 10x science output as culture. I'm unsure if this is multiplied by the AI getting science% and/or culture% boosts on higher difficulties, but that may factor into that.
     
    Socrates99 and Thibaulthc like this.
  3. orasis

    orasis Chieftain Supporter

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    Cultural victory has never really been explained well...
     
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  4. Falk

    Falk Chieftain

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    Oh, I wasn't aware of the culture boost for the Moon Landing.

    And yeah, cultural victory is not really explained ingame. The civilopedia is generally pretty bad in Civ 6, they didn't put much effort into it.

    I have a hard time winning culture on Emperor, that Moon landing boost makes it pretty much impossible to win peacefully if a good science civ is in the game.
     
  5. FractalAdvocate

    FractalAdvocate Chieftain

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    Cedbird77 and orasis like this.
  6. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    I think it’s more than just the moon landing. I’ve been doing some testing and there is what I think is a bug that causes huge leaps in domestic tourism when a player has more culture banked than they can spend on a civic.

    You’re right when you say that, with the way things are, it is pretty much impossible to peacefully win culture when there is a good science civ and I’m pretty sure these domestic tourist jumps are unintentional.
     
  7. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    Well, that's why you sabotage their spaceports, and win before they get that.
     
  8. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    Yeah sure there are things you can do. You can even uninstall and that is a solution too.
    My point is that it’s an unintended interaction that makes the game less fun.
     
  9. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    You'd rather uninstall rather than pillage their spaceport? I mean, suit yourself, but at that point, why even have other civs in the game?

    I mean people win peacefully all the time without messing with spaceports too. Just turn down the difficulty if it's too hard.

    It's explicitly meant to give a large culture boost to bring you to the end of the civics tree and also stall out any other culture victory.
     
    Last edited: Apr 10, 2019
  10. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    Of course I wouldn’t rather uninstall. I just meant that working around it is something that you can do in any game that has a bug, or you can try to get the developers to fix the bug.

    Here is the source:
    https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qA_KaqINufDwHmy9OGOjOw0v41Cc9rke/view

    That is a save file where you can finish moon landing that turn and watch the domestic tourists go up by hundreds for many turns. The amount of culture you gain isn’t bugged, but you end up gaining hundreds more domestic tourists than the game rules and formulas dictate.
     
  11. Archon_Wing

    Archon_Wing Vote for me or die

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    If there's a bug, it should obviously be fixed. I'm just saying that peaceful culture victories are more than possible when it's been said it's impossible more than once which is false. And even when it should be corrected, my advice still stands (you still have to counter it). Also the situation described by OP isn't particularly unusual; your save here is.

    So looking at the save, it seems like you're getting 400 domestic tourists off 600'ish science, which probably is several times more than it should. This definitely has something to do with overflow.
     
  12. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    Thanks for taking a look at the save.
    I agree that peaceful cultural victories are not impossible and have won more than a few.

    I’m extrapolating more to competitive games where easily gaining so many domestic tourists is a huge deterrent to the cultural win approach. It would be like having a very passive mechanic that quadruples the amount of production required for opposition space race projects.
     
  13. Socrates99

    Socrates99 Bottoms up!

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    I dont find peaceful culture games take much longer to win than other peaceful VCs unless you have a major cultural opponent. In general it feels pretty well tuned. The space projects do explain the domestic tourism leaps. Trajan and Peter are rough opponents for a CV.
     
  14. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    I wish you were correct but when you crunch the numbers, it doesn’t add up.

    For example, at 700 science per turn, the moon landing should provide 7000 culture which, in turn, should give about 70 domestic tourists. That seems balanced. However, several turns after the moon landing, it will have provided 200+ domestic tourists. Seems to be related to how the game reacts to culture overflow.
     
  15. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    Agreed, someone else has also come across this bug, and it does seem like a bug.
    If you had a save from before the issue began, then went through some turn that made it happen a zipped log file could identify what caused it. If it is the same bug as before then they will keep ramping up the Dom tourists every turn now which you can just report as a bug with a save where it is happening.
    So it only seems to be late game and quite possibly moon landing with a huge science causing some overflow/overwrite bug.
     
  16. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    Done. This is the log from a game where I didn't have tons of science but I still think the moon landing made the bug kick in for a few turns.
    https://drive.google.com/open?id=13hWacMjrTSCOYfjqV67aURonA6NMoafS
     
  17. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    I’ll try to have a look at today. For a few turns does not sound like the same bug, the other person could not stop theirs. I would expect a moon landing to increase domestic tourists but not to the level you were quoting. The logs should give a bit more, they do not have all detail though.
     
  18. Victoria

    Victoria Regina Supporter

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    @Pepperlet The logs show no issue but your game save does indeed.
    To me the bug looks like you are getting your total moon landing value every turn it is still active rather than just the portion used that turn.
    So to simplify, it used to work like this.
    You have 600 science per turn and therefore landing on the moon gives 6000 culture as a one off.
    The next turn you research a civic for 1000 culture and when it finishes you get 10 domestic tourists.
    The next turn you research a civic for 1500 culture and gain 15 domestic tourists.

    Now it seems to be giving you 60 domestic tourists each turn until the overflow finishes.

    This means someone else getting to moon landing pretty much ends your chances of a CV. Report it as a bug with that save.
     
  19. Pepperlet

    Pepperlet Chieftain

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    Thanks @Victoria. I reported it a little while back and Firaxis recently told me they’re looking into it. Will be pretty neat if they do fix it.

    You referred to another person with the same bug but I bet that person was also me as I had a similar discussion with you in another thread. I think you’re right on the money with your assessment of the situation.
     
  20. Nerevatar

    Nerevatar Chieftain

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    Just wanted to pop in and say I have experienced those weird continious dom tourism jumps late game, effectively preventing culture win even when mass spamming Rock bands to the leading civ. The save was heavily modded (but nothing relating to culture or tourism) so probably not very useful to upload, but still hopes Firaxis looks into it.
     

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