Suddenly impossible to buy tech from AI?

[Sir Yelof]

So I'm still limping through GOTM7 (my first deity game), puffing myself up to look big, paying tribute whenever possible, and occasionally jumping on a war bandwagon with other civs just so I can grab a tech in the peace treaty negotiations. Even so, I am WOEFULLY behind in tech, as in almost a full age. Whoo boy.

Actually, I was doing all right for quite some time buying techs from the AI as I researched them myself to try and catch up. I could get one or two medieval techs for an extra Iron, or pony up a lot of gold per turn to get something like Physics. I was psyched to make it to Renaissance before the lead civ made it to Modern.

Then I hit a brick wall. Nobody would trade me Medicine, Steam Power, Nationalism... or later, Communism, Espionage, Electricity... it's always "it can't be done" when I seek an offer. I've been poor, I've been (relatively) rich, I've had two extra luxuries, I've had iron and coal that people needed... not a thing. I finally got someone to trade me Espionage as part of a peace settlement but I had to put up like 15-20 gold/turn to get him to consider it.

Anyone else encounter this? Do the techs just jump in value at that age? Did I maybe break an agreement somewhere that ticked everyone off?

--Yelof

 

[Maple]

How much gold do you have when you are in trades? Usually, the problem is you don't have enough gold. Also, try throwing in your world map. The ai severly overvalues it. 8 gold per turn and a world map for steam engine anyone?

 

[Lawrence]

I've found that starting from some time in the game the AI would not trade you anything other than gold per turn for your luxurys. They would not trade tech for your world map and other thingys. They will ONLY trade their techs for immediate cash.

But I've found a comearound for this, ask them to renegotiate peace with you. Add your luxury on one side, their tech on the other and if your pay is decent, they will agree.

 

[ainwood]

I ran into this exact problem in the GOTM with the same techs....and it cost me the game.

What I suspect may have happened is that I lost a city to the Japanese that formed a major link in my trading network (near the choke point), which would have stopped my trade deals. The strang thing is that I too could not trade for anything - when the Romans won with a spaceship, I still couldn't get medicine from anyone for 5th-civ price.

More bizarely, I was kicking the germans, and they were down to two cities. I offered peace, and they were happy to give me all their gold, maps and even a size 5 city but would not give a single tech for peace.

That made me think it was something to do with how the techs were being valued at the time.

So I had to crank up my science output, and got it until I was researching a tech every 4 or 6 turns, but I was still too far behind......

 

[Creepster]

Well here is my two cents worth.

The AI's will trade the techs, but they are considerably higher than they were in the earlier age. Take the eight gold per turn example you were offering. That only works out to 160 gold (8 GPT x 20 turns) That is really not very much money for the amount of research required for the tech. You also need to check with the other civs. Not all civs are as greedy the AI does change what is acceptable between the different civ's. It may not be a huge differnce (they are not totaly stupid) but there ususally is some.

Also the world map is a great trading tool early in the game, but I think the AI places a lesser value on it after it has been traded a few times. In my current game I am getting almost nothing for it. I think they downgraded the value in one of the patches.

One of the better way to get the techs is to go to war with the AI. I don't have a lot of experience with this yet. But it is working for me. I signed a MPP with one civ and got another civ to declare war on me. With all of the MPP's I was at war with two civ's. When it came time for peace I got three techs from the civ that declared war on me and one from the other civ that joined in because of the MPP. So I got 4 techs in about 6 turns. This is the best way I can figure out how to catch up with the AI's. The best part of this was that the AI's went to war destroyed some of ewach other and stopped researching while they were at war. When they are at war you get to catch up on techs.

I am playing on Diety level and have yet to change my investment level from 100% tax. Researching the techs are just too slow and a waste of time. Well these are just a few of my thoughts.

 

[Fayadi]

Trade Embargo?

 

[Sullla]

Creepster is right - you aren't getting techs because you lack the money to pay for them. I also played (and won ) GOTM7 and as I recall, the early modern era techs were costing me about a resource and 35g/turn each. The resources normally went for about 30g/turn, so figure roughly 65g/turn or, over twenty turns, 1300g. If you can't meet that amount, they will refuse to trade with you. Try getting up a well-placed Forbidden Palace, building lots of marketplaces and banks. Wall Street can help a LOT in raising money.

And when you finish the game, read my *spoilers* write-up of my victory at http://www.geocities.com/lcsullla/GOTM7

 

[ainwood]

AS I mentioned in my post above, in my game, the Germans valued a size 5 city below medicine or communism when they were down to two cities remaining. They, and all the other civs were in the modern age.

I also tried saving up money for a few turns to buy techs. They wouldn't take upwards of 1000 gold for the techs, nor luxuries. There was no trade embargo either.

I'll see if I can still find an old autosave.

 

[Lawrence]

No, sulla, we are talking about NOT being able to get anything EXCEPT gold per turn for either resource or luxury.

I don't know when, but it happens some time. When you offer some luxury or resource and try to add a tech in the other side, the advisor tells you "They would never accept that deal.", even if you add 20000 gold( I've did it once ) to it, your advisor still says "They would never accept that deal." But, if you remove the luxury from the table, your advisor will say "The deal is acceptable." if it is acceptable. So the outcome of this? Your extra luxury are no longer valuable, as the weaker AI will not pay gold per turns, and you cannot use them to trade for techs. Your only resolution is to send it for FREE to the AI or got demanded.

You never came with this? That is weird to me, as I have this in virtually every game.

 

[ainwood]

Well, I found my GOTM submission, and found that I could actually buy techs from the AI. All I had to do was come up with 205 gold PER TURN for sanitation or communism (the turn before the Romans won by spaceship, to give you an idea how far behind I was. I could also buy Motorised Transportation for the same price - but I was only 1 turn away from researching it myself. This effectively meant ramping my own research rate right down to generate that much cash.

Ie - I can buy one old tech every 20 turns, and research new ones at around 20 turns / tech, or I can research them myself at around 6 tuns per tech.

Either way - pretty much impossible to catch up on the tech front!


I'm just wondering whether this is a 'typical' deity price for techs, and some advice on how to keep up in the deity tech race.

 

[ShredZ]

There is definitely something screwy with the AI, sometime I have a deal on the table in which they are "We are getting close to a deal" and then I add a luxury for them and its "They would never accept this deal!" .... Im mean WTH ?

 

[Qitai]

If you have a bad reputation, they will not accept gtp it seems. I guess it is to prevent another abuse. offering gtp for tech and then breaking treaty the next turn. I once had a experience where I spoil my reputation in BC. After that, any civ who knows that civ that I broke treaty with refuse to trade gpt for tech deal with me, but the rest (2 of them) would.