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Suffering at the hands of the RNG

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Lemon Merchant, Apr 13, 2013.

  1. Lennier

    Lennier Emperor

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    I actually like the promotion system (although it probably can be refined some), but commando is a very useful promotion; nukes+commando is much more effective than nukes+paratroopers. And the promotions that increase the range of your planes are pretty nice too.
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I would like to clarify my position, because it seems you're misinterpreting it since I have presented it in pieces:

    1. Pointing out that the human is better at it than the AI is an argument to refute the assertion that turning trades off makes the game easier.

    2. The reason I feel tech trades are one of the worst well-accepted mechanics in all of civ is that they are overpowered in the general sense. They can and routinely do increase your effective :science: output several times over, and do so applied *after* all other multipliers. There isn't a comparable feature in civ; nothing else gives you so much value at so little investment. Sensible MP games ban tech trading for just this reason.

    Because of that, "no tech trades" and "always peace" are different. Tech trades are overpowered even if there are no AIs in the game at all; they over-centralize "standard play", which relies on them extensively (war bribes, tech rate, gold to fund teching even more, demands to avoid wars, easy diplo bonuses). All that and I still see the ridiculous notion spammed that somehow having them on makes the game harder in single player :lol:. In MP, they just mean that the only players that can win are the ones in the best tech alliance, usually. Once in a while you'd get evenly grouped tech alliances, but usually it's just a big screw job.

    "Always peace" is a very different game, but doesn't remove a thoroughly overcentralized mechanic.
     
  3. noto2

    noto2 Emperor

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    Yeah, I've had a few games like that, I tend to the remember the ones that are the other way around, though. I remember I had a game where I lost a city, I had two archers fortified in it, 20% cultural defense, and they both had CG1. 2 barb archers march at it and attack. No problem, right? My archers were at 50+20+25+20= 115% bonus, so around 6.45. The barb archers were just at strength 3. Well....I lost both battles, and they took the city.

    That one really stood out in my mind, I mean, what are the odds? Probably something like 1/500 at least. That almost made me quit, but I decided to stay in the game and stick it out a little. What made me quit was when Monty invaded with a stack of axemen and I whipped out chariots. I don't remember the exact numbers but it was something like 4 axes, 2 swords, 1 archer, on a flat tile, and I had about 5 chariots and 2 axes. I lost every single battle. I even threw my archers at the units that had been knocked down to like 1.2 strength, my archers died too. Then Monty took my city. LOL.

    But then I have to be fair. There have been times where I've attacked a city defended by axes, with swords, at like 15% odds, and I win 3 battles in a row. The RNG can really shape a game in the early game :/
     
  4. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    Those are the games that I usually forget. Oh well, it's human nature to remember the bad things and forget the good, I suppose. :lol:

    You're right, though, the RNG can really shape/break/mangle/improve the early game. Personally, I'd rather be shaped than mangled. ;)
     
  5. Olson

    Olson Warlord

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    My personal criteria for moving up to the next difficulty level includes being able to win on any map. So I started my first Inland Sea, standard everything. What I didn't anticipate was that if the civs to my south and east (me in NW corner) REX'd away from me it would create two areas of 'fog' outside my normal fog-busters' view. In this game; as soon as they're programmed to do, a barb city on each side of me started spawing archers and because the Inland Sea map is 'flat earth' all these archers were funneled right to me. These weren't normal archers. These were flatland (no terrain defensive bonus)-axemen killing-super archers. It was embarassing to lose my capital and one other city. When these archers attacked my last city and defeated all but one warrior I had to stop the game so it wouldn't go into my SP HoF.
     
  6. paulcarri

    paulcarri Prince

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    Current game, island map.

    I launched an invasion on Huayna Capac with galleons for transport.

    I left 2 frigates and 4 galleons outside my capital... but left my island pretty lightly defended as i had sent most my troops to invade

    So, when i suddenly saw 3 caravels and 4 galleons off my coast i REALLY didnt want them all to unload.

    Combat went like this

    Frigate attacks - kills target
    Second frigate attacks - kills target but only just
    Galleons attack, every single one dies not a single win... no joking!
    I managed to defend, but it was a scramble


    And...much later in game... though this was more funny than worrying

    Im invading monty..he is So backwards its unreal...longbows in 1750ad :)
    I take his city with a general led tank - but its damaged quite badly killing the longbow!
    Next turn he attacks with a single longbow, and kills my tank and retakes the city...
     
  7. J@ckRB

    J@ckRB Chieftain

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    RNG can really unintentionally screw you over early-game by barb animals chomping your military and the occasional barb warrior wreaking havoc by beating other fortified archers/warriors from suicide odds. Later the game goes on the less the RNG affects combat. It may still affect 1v1 situations, but it comes to a point where sheer numbers overcome poor luck.
    But then, the RNG could equally help you and screw over the neighbouring AI. Either way, RNG really does control the early game just from battle results. Almost too much for my liking imho.
     
  8. Lemon Merchant

    Lemon Merchant Disinterested Observer Moderator

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    I'm sure it all evens out in the end if you average enough games, but doesn't the RNG make your head hurt from whacking it on your computer desk in frustration? ;)
     
  9. J@ckRB

    J@ckRB Chieftain

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    I'm pretty sure head bashing is a tried-and-tested method on the CivForums, so why do anything else to release anger? :lol:
     

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