Suggest Alternate Leaders for Civ6 base civs

[Guandao]

This thread is for suggesting any alternate leaders for the Civ6 base game civs, along with Poland

America
Abraham Lincoln
Andrew Jackson
Dwight D. Eisenhower
Franklin D. Roosevelt
George Washington
Grover Cleveland
Harry S. Truman
James K. Polk
James Madison
James Monroe
John Adams
John F. Kennedy
John Quincy Adams
Lyndon B. Johnson
Thomas Jefferson
Richard Nixon
Ronald Reagan
William McKinley
Woodrow Wilson

Arabia
Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan
Abdullah al-Mahdi Billah
Al-Adil I
Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah
Ali
Al-Mahdi
Al-Ma'mun
Al-Mansur
Al-Muizz
Al-Mustansir Billah
Al-Mu'tadid
Al-Mu'tasim
Al-Mutawakkil
Al-Walid I
Harun al-Rashid
Ibn Saud
Muawiyah I
Umar
Umar II
Uthman

Aztecs
Acamapichtli
Ahuitzotl
Axayacatl
Cuauhtemoc
Huitzilihuitl
Itzcoatl
Moctezuma II
Nezahualcoyotl
Tezozomoc

Brazil
Duke of Caxias
Epitacio Pessoa
Getulio Vargas
Jose Paranhos
Juscelino Kubitschek
Marquis of Parana
Mem de Sa
Nilo Pecanha
Pedro I

China
Cao Cao
Cao Pi
Cao Rui
Gaozu of Han
Guangwu of Han
Hongwu Emperor
Jing of Han
Kangxi Emperor
Kublai Khan
Liu Bei
Ming of Han
Mu of Zhou
Qianlong
Sun Quan
Sun Yat-Sen
Taizong of Song
Taizong of Tang
Taizu of Song
Wen of Chen
Wen of Han
Wen of Sui
Wenxuan of Northern Qi
Wu Ding
Wu of Han
Wu of Liang
Wu Zetian
Xuan of Han
Xuanzong of Tang
Yongle Emperor
Yuan Shikai
Zhang of Han
Zhao of Han
Zhengde Emperor
Zhenzong of Song

Egypt
Ahmose I
Akhenaten
Amenhotep II
Amenhotep III
Apophis
Djoser
Gamal Abdel Nasser
Hatshepsut
Khufu
Mentuhotep II
Muhammad Ali
Narmer
Psamtik II
Ptolemy I Soter
Ptolemy III Euergetes
Ramesses II
Sahure
Senusret I
Senusret III
Seti I
Shoshenq I
Sneferu
Thuthmose I
Thutmose III

England
Aethelstan
Alfred the Great
Benjamin Disraeli
Charles II
Charles Grey
Clement Attlee
David Lloyd George
Edward the Confessor
Edward the Elder
Edward I
Edward III
Edward IV
Elizabeth I
George V
Henry I
Henry II
Henry VIII
James I
Mary I
Mary II
Offa
Oliver Cromwell
Oswiu
Richard I
Robert Peel
Robert Walpole
William I
William III
William Ewart Gladstone
William Pitt
William Pitt the Younger
Winston Churchill

France
Alexandre Ribot
Cardinal Mazarin
Cardinal Richelieu
Charlemagne
Charles V
Charles de Gaulle
Charles Dupuy
Charles Maurice de Talleyrand-Perigord
Clovis
Eleanor of Aquitaine
Francis I
Georges Clemenceau
Henry IV
Hugh Capet
Louis VI
Louis IX
Louis XI
Louis XIV
Maximilien Robespierre
Napoleon
Napoleon III
Pepin the Short
Philip II
Philip IV

Germany
Arminius
Charlemagne
Conrad II
Frederick Augustus I
Frederick II
Friedrich Ebert
Henry IV
Henry the Fowler
Henry the Lion
Konrad Adenauer
Lothair I
Louis IV
Ludwig II
Otto I
Otto von Bismarck
Sigismund Holy Roman Emperor
Wilhelm II

Greece
Agesilaus II
Alcibiades
Alexander III of Macedon
Antigonus I
Antigonus II
Cleisthenes
Demetrius I
Demosthenes
Eleftherios Venizelos
Epaminondas
George I
Ioannis Kapodistrias
Leonidas
Lycurgus
Periander
Philip II
Polycrates
Pyrrhus
Solon
Themistocles
Thrasybulus

India (Indian history is more than just Gandhi )
Ahilyabai Holkar
Akbar
Alauddin Khilji
Amoghavarsha
Ashoka
Aurangzeb
Babur
Bajirao I
Bimbisara
Chandragupta II
Chandragupta Maurya
Devapala
Deva Raya
Dharmapala
Dharma Raja
Gautamiputra Satakarni
Ghiyas ud din Balban
Gowri Lakshmi Bayi
Humayun
Hyder Ali
Iltutmish
Jahangir
Krishnadevaraya
Kumaragupta I
Mahendravarman I
Marthanda Varma
Muhammad bin Tughluq
Pulakeshin II
Qamar-ud-din Khan
Rajadhiraja Chola
Raja Raja Chola I
Rajendra Chola II
Razia Sultana
Rudrama Devi
Sadayavarman Sundara Pandyan
Samudragupta
Shah Jahan
Shashanka
Sher Shah Suri
Shivaji
Simhavishnu
Someshvara I
Tipu Sultan
Veera Ballala II
Vishnuvardhana

Japan
Ashikaga Takauji
Fujiwara no Kamatari
Fujiwara no Michinaga
Genmei
Go-Daigo
Ito Hirobumi
Jimmu
Jingu
Kanmu
Katsura Taro
Kido Takayoshi
Meiji
Minamoto no Yoritomo
Oda Nobunaga
Okubo Toshimichi
Saigo Takamori
Shotoku
Suiko
Taira no Kiyomori
Tokugawa Ieyasu
Tokugawa Yoshimune
Toyotomi Hideyoshi

Kongo
Alvaro II
Anna Nzinga
Garcia II
Lukeni Lua Nimi
Nzinga a Nkuwu
Pedro IV

Norway
Eric Bloodaxe
Eystein I
Haakon IV
Haakon VI
Haakon VII
Magnus VI
Magnus Barefoot
Olaf Tryggvason
Olaf II
Sigurd the Crusader
Sverre

Poland
Anna Jagiellon
Augustus II
Boleslaw I
Boleslaw II
Boleslaw III Wrymouth
Casimir I
Casimir III
Casimir IV
Henry II
Jadwiga
Jogaila
John III Sobieski
Jozef Pilsudski
Mieszko I
Mieszko II Lambert
Sigismund I
Sigismund II
Sigismund III Vasa
Stephen Bathory
Wladyslaw IV Vasa

Rome
Alexios I Komnenos
Antoninus Pius
Augustus
Aurelian
Caligula
Cicero
Cincinnatus
Claudius
Constantine
Diocletian
Domitian
Fabius Maximus
Gaius Marius
Hadrian
Julian
Julius Caesar
Livia
Lucius Junius Brutus
Marcus Aurelius
Marcus Furius Camillus
Marcus Licinius Crassus
Mark Antony
Nero
Nerva
Philip the Arab
Pompey
Scipio Africanus
Septimius Severus
Sulla
Theodora
Theodosius I
Tiberius
Titus
Valentinian I
Vespasian

Russia
Alexander I
Alexander II
Alexander Nevsky
Alexis
Andrey Bogolyubsky
Anna
Catherine I
Catherine II
Dmitry Donskoy
Elizabeth
Ivan III
Ivan IV
Nicholas I
Nicholas II
Nikita Khrushchev
Olga of Kiev
Rurik
Sviatoslav I
Vladimir Lenin
Vladimir the Great
Yaroslav I
Yaroslav II
Yuri Dolgorukiy

Scythia
Ateas
Bartatua
Idanthyrsus
Respendial
Scyles
Skilurus
Zorsines

Spain
Alfonso the Battler
Alfonso II of Aragon
Alfonso VI
Alfonso X
Baldomero Espartero
Berengaria
Charles III
Charles V
Ferdinand I of Leon
Ferdinand II
Ferdinand III of Castile
Isabella I
James I
John I
Miguel Primo de Rivera
Pelagius
Peter III of Aragon
Petronilla of Aragon
Philip III
Philip IV
Philip V
Ramiro I
Ramiro II of Leon
Sancho III
Urraca of Leon

Sumer
Eannatum
Enlil-Bani
Enmerkar
Gudea
Kubaba
Lugal-zage-si
Naram-sin
Sargon
Shulgi
Ur-Nammu

 

[Xandinho]

My suggestions:

Aztec - Acamapichtli
Brazil - Juscelino Kubitschek
China - Mao Zedong
England - Henry VIII
France - Charles de Gaulle
Germany - Otto I the Great
Japan - Jimmu
Poland - Mieszko I
Rome - Nero
Russia - Ivan the Terrible

 

[jsciv69]

Here's a quick list

America-Thomas Jefferson or Richard Nixon
England-William Pitt
France-Maximilien Robspiere
Germany- Otto I
Spain Isabella
Rome-Constantine
Russia-Ivan IV or Nikita Khrushchev
Egypt-Gamal Abdel Nasser of Hathshepsut
Sumeria-Sargon
India-Ashoka
Kongo-Lukeni lua Nimi

 

[Lord Lakely]

China: Liu Bang, Qianlong
Egypt: Hatchepsut, Thusmose III
England: Edward III
France: Clovis, Charlemagne, Charles de Gaule
Germany: Konrad Adenauer
India: Shah Jehan
Japan: Suiko
Kongo: Anna Nzinga
Rome: Livia Augusta, Hadrian
Russia: Nikita Krushchev, Catherine
Spain: Isabella, Charles V
United States: John F Kennedy.

 

[Phrozen]

Egypt: Thutmose III, Djoser, Sneferu
England: Henry II, William Pitt the Elder
America: Eisenhower, Grover Cleveland, Jefferson
France: Phillip II Augustus, someone from the Belle Epoque maybe Ribot, Dupuy, or even Clemenceau

 

[Lord of War N02]

Should Charlemagne also being German Leader since he was forefathers to both Germans and Frenchs
Germany: Henry IV, Holy Roman Emperor, Friedrich Ebert, Louis IV, Holy Roman Emperor, Conrad II, Lothar I, Henry the Lion, Arminius
Russia: Yaroslav I of Novgorod, Vladimir of Kiev, Alexander Nevsky, Alexander II, Lenin, Rurik, Sviatoslav of Kiev, Andrey Bogolyubsky
China: Sun Yat Sen, Yuan Shikai, Kangxi, Yongle, Cao Cao(he was de facto ruler of China)
Japan: Minamoto Yoritomo, Kanmu, Shotoku, Ashikaga Takauji, Ito Hirobumi, Taro Katsura, Genmei, Jingu, Toyotomi Hideyoshi
Poland: Jan Solbeski, Pilsudski, Stephen Bathory, Sigismund III Vasa, Jadwiga, August II, Henry II the Pious
Spain: Franco, Alfonso X of Castile, John I of Castile, Ramiro I of Asturias, Baldomero Espartero, Prince of Vergara, Pelagius of Asturias, Miguel Primo de Rivera

 

[CaiusDrewart]

On Rome: I don't think Civ has ever chosen a Republican leader. Scipio Africanus, Fabius Maximus (nicknamed "The Delayer") and Gaius Marius won (or in Maximus's case, avoided losing) important battles for the Republic.

If you wanted to go back to the early Republic, you could pick Lucius Junius Brutus (the founder of the Republic), Lucius Quinctius Cincinnatus (gentleman farmer and savior of his country), or Marcus Furius Camillus (the "second founder of Rome" who rebuilt the city after it was sacked by Gauls, appointed dictator five times). Later Romans revered these figures as champions of patriotism and liberty.

If you wanted a Rome focused on something other than conquest and warfare, Hadrian (who loved the arts and architecture) or Marcus Aurelius (who loved philosophy) would be solid choices. Cicero is also possible (he was head of the Roman state in 63 BC), but his most important accomplishments came through his writing rather than his politics.

Civ has never given Rome a Late Antique leader, either. Constantine would be a fine choice for religious leader, but really it's Diocletian who was the boldest and most effective ruler of the Roman state in that time. He reformed the administration of the empire more radically than any Roman since Augustus.

On Greece: from the pre-Alexander period, we've got the Athenians Themistocles (who defeated the Persians at Salamis in a great naval battle and transformed Athens into a naval and commercial superpower), Solon (a semi-legendary figure who is sometimes considered a founder of Athenian democracy), and Cleisthenes (the guy who actually founded Athenian democracy). There's also the Theban Epaminondas, whose crushing victory at Leuctra ended Spartan hegemony over Greece. The Spartans attributed all of their uniquely hyper-militaristic customs, including their famous agoge, to the semi-legendary lawgiver Lycurgus.

Finally, although I doubt Civ would choose him over his more famous son, Philip II of Macedon was very important. He reorganized the Macedonian army and unified Greece through conquest, paving the way for everything Alexander the Great would subsequently accomplish.

You could also go mythical with the Greeks, with leaders like Theseus, Odysseus, Achilles, and so forth. The Ancient Greeks themselves generally considered these heroic kings to have been real people. But I see no need to go in that direction when there are so many interesting historical leaders to choose from.

 

[SMcM]

Why Krushchev and not Stalin?

 

[Dehumanizer]

Why Krushchev and not Stalin?

It's like asking why not Hitler for Germany.

 

[Lord Lakely]

Stalin might be a bit too controversial for modern day Civ, besides he was powerhungry and paranoid and not THAT good of a leader tbh.

Personally, I feel like the WW2 dictator triad (Hitler, Mao and Stalin) should receive the same treatment; either all can be in or none... aaaaad since Hitler will never be in because he's banned from games in Germany...)

Of the possible Sov leaders, I like the idea of Krushchev because of his counterespionage reforms. You could easily turn him into a leader who is very espionage-centric. (think of a better version of MoO's Darloks) couple this to a national bonus which provides extra resources, a possible scientific or expansionistic UB and you can create a self-sufficient civilization who has no need for no stinking diplomacy.

Gorbatchev and Lenin could work too, I suppose, but not too fond of either option. (All anti-Stalin criticisms also apply to Lenin and Gorbatchev's reforms caused communism to fall, leading to a massive power vacuum, which led to the present-day situations of CrimeaGate and RussiaAreDirtyRottenBastardsGate.

 

[SMcM]

It's like asking why not Hitler for Germany.

Thing is that Khrushchev was also a soviet dictator. If he was considered, then why not Stalin?

And besides, Stalin and Mao are not really in the same situation as Hitler; they have been in most Civ games (even Civ Rev, marketed to be family friendly), and both are still quite popular in their home countries (obviously not true in Hitler's case). Whilst they were still responsible for many deaths, they did not carry out deliberate mass killings near the scale of the holocaust.

Stalin might be a bit too controversial for modern day Civ, besides he was powerhungry and paranoid and not THAT good of a leader tbh.

Qin Shi Huang was also power-hungry and paranoid.

 

[Dehumanizer]

Thing is that Khrushchev was also a soviet dictator. If he was considered, then why not Stalin?

Well, I don't think that Khrushchev is appropriate either. But at least he didn't kill as many people. He even denounced Stalin in 1956.

And besides, Stalin and Mao are not really in the same situation as Hitler; they have been in most Civ games (even Civ Rev, marketed to be family friendly), and both are still quite popular in their home countries (obviously not true in Hitler's case).

I think it is a shame that Stalin and Mao were in previous iterations of the game. It is true that many uneducated people (in Russia too) think that Stalin was great because under his rule "Russia" was powerful (militarily, scientifically etc). Of course none of them experienced the actual life under Stalin. The fact that Hitler is considered (and rightfully so) an absolute evil, sort of helped the image of Stalin - because, well, "at least he didn't commit a genocide", so he is "not that bad".

Whilst they were still responsible for many deaths, they did not carry out deliberate mass killings near the scale of the holocaust.

True, but still, he is responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians. Many died in labor camps just upon returning from war. It is simply offensive to put him as leader of the Russians (not mentioning the fact that he wasn't even Russian). I say this as a Russian.

Qin Shi Huang was also power-hungry and paranoid.

It's really incomparable. Totally different scales.

If I had to pick I'd go with Alexander II.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

America – Thomas Jefferson, Dwight D. Eisenhower
Aztecs – Topiltzin Cē Ācatl Quetzalcōatl
Egypt – Akhenaten
England – Richard the Lionheart
France – Louis IX, Louis XIV, Napoleon
Germany – Kaiser Wilhelm II, Adolf Hitler
(Holy Roman – Charlemagne)
Norway – Leif Erikson
Rome – Julius Caesar, Augustus, Hadrian, Marcus Aurelius
Spain – Charles V

 

[SMcM]

Well, I don't think that Khrushchev is appropriate either. But at least he didn't kill as many people. He even denounced Stalin in 1956.

I think it is a shame that Stalin and Mao were in previous iterations of the game. It is true that many uneducated people (in Russia too) think that Stalin was great because under his rule "Russia" was powerful (militarily, scientifically etc). Of course none of them experienced the actual life under Stalin. The fact that Hitler is considered (and rightfully so) an absolute evil, sort of helped the image of Stalin - because, well, "at least he didn't commit a genocide", so he is "not that bad".


True, but still, he is responsible for the deaths of millions of Russians. Many died in labor camps just upon returning from war. It is simply offensive to put him as leader of the Russians (not mentioning the fact that he wasn't even Russian). I say this as a Russian.


It's really incomparable. Totally different scales.

If I had to pick I'd go with Alexander II.

When you say people think Stalin was great in Russia too what you mean is in Russia exclusively. Outside of your country, pretty much everyone hates him. Many Russians seem to be quite forgiving of corrupt governments. Even Putin has had at least a hundred opposition 'disappeared'. He still gets elected every time. No wonder Stalin is still revered by many Russians.

No, I'm not saying Stalin was a good guy though. Far from it. He may even have killed his own wife. Just that at least he isn't Hitler (that's something, right).

Also, how is Stalin different to Qin? The only difference there is that Stalin is offensive due to him being a recent leader. Unless you are saying it is okay for Qin to be crazy as he was ancient, but Stalin should have known better?

 

[IgorS]

America
George Washington

Arabia
Harun al-Rashid

Aztecs
Ahuitzotl

Brazil
Juscelino Kubitschek

China
Kangxi

Egypt
Hatshepsut

England
Elizabeth

France
Louis XIV

Germany
Otto von Bismarck

Greece
Alexander

India
Asoka

Japan
Meiji

Kongo
Nzinga a Nkuwu

Norway
Haakon Haakonsson

Rome
Augustus

Russia
Catherine

Scythia
Skilurus

Spain
Isabella

Sumer
Ur-Nammu

 

[Guandao]

Here are my guesses for which Civs will get multiple leaders:

America
Lincoln, or even Washington

China
Wu Zetian

Egypt
Ramesses II (maybe Hatshepsut if they want more female rep)

England
Elizabeth

France
Napoleon

Germany
Bismarck

Greece
Alexander

India
Ashoka

Japan
Tokugawa Ieyasu (or they might just have Japan be a one leader civ)

Rome
Julius Caesar

Russia
Catherine the Great

Spain
Isabella

 

[ehecatzin]

Its so odd to see people suggesting Ce Acatl Topiltzin for the Aztecs:

-He was Toltec
-He's shrouded in legend
-From what we know several Toltec rulers styled themselves in "Quetzalcoatl" regalia.

So its really hard to diferentiate between myth, religion and historical fact, and even harder to point to a single individual to call him THE Quetzalcoatl, and yes, to top it all off, not Aztec.

Acampichtli is also very odd, sure he secured the Aztec position on the Anahuac valley, but he was a vassal of Atzcapotzalco.

Now if you want more Aztec options the first good one would be Itzcoatl, who actually formed the triple alliance and ended Atzcapotzalco's rule on central Mexico. Nezahualcoyotl, another one of the founding members of the alliance would be a good option.

 

[Guandao]

Added more leaders I found notable or interesting to the list. Feel free to dispute them.

It's probably too early to speculate on which of these leaders will be chosen as alternate leaders.
Wait until they actually confirm Gorgo.

 

[KrikkitTwo]

Greece: Theodora or Alexios Komnenos
Rome: Theodora or Alexios Komnenos
(Byzantine Leader leads either the Roman or the Greek civ)

France: Charlemagne
Germany: Charlemagne
(leads both)

China: Kublai Khan (can lead Mongolia too once it is in)

if Norway is retitled Nordic/Norse/Scandanavia: Gustav

 

[phryxolydian]

Now if you want more Aztec options the first good one would be Itzcoatl, who actually formed the triple alliance and ended Atzcapotzalco's rule on central Mexico. Nezahualcoyotl, another one of the founding members of the alliance would be a good option.

Very good, sir!