Suggestion: make earlier techs cheaper!

[Trogg]

First off, amazing mod! More on topic: I find the research times for the early techs to be way too long. It takes absolutely forever to get those basic early ones like mining, exploration, animal husbandry and such. Although I do like the tech pace later on once I get into the meat of the game.

Here my suggestion: make the first tier of techs take about the same as would be normal in a normal CIV game, perhaps a little longer but not much. Then quickly ramp up the research time as you proceed through the trees. So the second tier would cost noticeably more but still be fairly quick to get and then continue up to the current pace.

This way the early game with exploring and setting up the first few cities goes faster while the later parts still leave plenty of time to enjoy your lovely new assassins or what-have-you that you just acquired. Hope this is all clear.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Better suggestion: Rework the eras so that you can start with the basic essential techs without being all the way to the "Classical" era and just 1 or 2 techs away from founding any religion, or so you could be beyond "Classical" without having just about the whole tech tree complete. Also, make all the religion specific techs not be given out for free in the "Medieval" era, as all but Infernal Pact currently are.

 

[Fafnir13]

I like the speed it goes at now. Long enough that it doesn't feel trivial but short enough that it (usually) doesn't feel like I'm clicking "end turn" for 50 turns.

 

[lordrune]

So long as you're selective with your early techs, its okay (i.e. priority 1: getting some commerce into your city(s) so you can get your economy established).

If you ignore all the early options for commerce (cottages, markets/elder councils, calendar and mining resources) and instead beeline a military tech, you'll struggle - thats why the AI often fails to get off the ground.

 

[MiKa523]

Early techcost is fine by me as long as I play quick or normal speed.

 

[Zechnophobe]

First off, amazing mod! More on topic: I find the research times for the early techs to be way too long. It takes absolutely forever to get those basic early ones like mining, exploration, animal husbandry and such. Although I do like the tech pace later on once I get into the meat of the game.

Here my suggestion: make the first tier of techs take about the same as would be normal in a normal CIV game, perhaps a little longer but not much. Then quickly ramp up the research time as you proceed through the trees. So the second tier would cost noticeably more but still be fairly quick to get and then continue up to the current pace.

This way the early game with exploring and setting up the first few cities goes faster while the later parts still leave plenty of time to enjoy your lovely new assassins or what-have-you that you just acquired. Hope this is all clear.

It is definitely a lot longer than normal BTS, and it takes a bit to get used to, but the barbarian era for FFH is significantly more involved (As barbarians are an actual threat). I won't say that FFH2 has the right balance yet, but at least there is some intention to slow down the early parts of the game.

 

[cabbagemeister]

I like the slow start. Makes you really consider what techs are actually vital for your development. For example, unless I'm shooting for a religion, I'll almost never go for AH or Fishing or Hunting straight off unless I have 2+ of those resources in my capital, because investing that many turns in the research isn't worth it just to pasture one cow. Makes a big difference from BTS when you'd just research all the early techs without thinking about it.

 

[Grey Fox]

I also like the slow start. It makes your early choice more important. Should I go for Agriculture and a worker (often finish at the same time), or maybe build more scouts and/or warriors and explore and go for Mysticism for an earlier Great Sage? Etc...

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Why hasn't anyone commented on my "Better Suggestion" yet? It would let most of you keep your slow start, while letting the OP and I skip the monotony of the most basic research.

 

[Grey Fox]

Yeah it was a good suggestion, I also don't like how later starts include so many techs. The techs for classical era should be something like; Agriculture, Animal Husbandry, Education, Ancient Chants, Mysticism, Cartography, Crafting, Mining, Masonry, Exploration... that should be enough I think?

 

[Methuselah]

Why hasn't anyone commented on my "Better Suggestion" yet? It would let most of you keep your slow start, while letting the OP and I skip the monotony of the most basic research.

Doesn't advanced start pretty much already allow you to do what you're proposing?

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Sort of, but it also requires that you first settle a city in the specified area, rather than being able to move your starting settler around exploring. Also, the AI would spend a lot of its money on units instead of techs, and I believe it gets bonus money based on difficulty. It can also be hard to remember just how much gold you need for the basic techs, plus it is tempting to just beeline for something like a religion or Trade instead.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

I'd rather see the later techs have their costs increased. That way, you can have a quicker start by turning up the speed without having the mid to late game techs done in three or four turns.

 

[Gelvan]

I'd rather see the later techs have their costs increased. That way, you can have a quicker start by turning up the speed without having the mid to late game techs done in three or four turns.

yeah, it was always my imagination that in late game you research everything in 2 turns, while in the very beginning you needed more turns, for research, and therefore more strategic skill, what you'd choose.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Please don't make the earlier techs cheaper, just because the learning curve is steep. It's actually a very fast-paced game. In fact, "why are the earlier techs so expensive" has been asked so frequently that a detailed answer should be included in the FAQ.

My beginner's strategic guide:
1) walk your settler around for a few turns to look for a place to settle.
2) choose which worker techs you want
3) build enough warriors to defend cities for a raging barbs game
4) choose an early kick-ass unit to go for
4) lightbulb your way up to kick-ass unit
5) kick ass

 

[zup]

Nah, it's more like:

1. get horsemen quickly
2. kick the collective ass of the rest of the world

At least for Tasunke.

 

[Lord Tirian]

I like the early tech speed (even playing in slower speeds), it's just that you sometimes don't have enough to do. Somehow getting one or two early units and perhaps a building without prerequisite would do well to break up the monotony - especially as early exploration is a fun game in itself.

Cheers, LT.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I'll have to agree with some of the guys here: the early techs are fine. it's the lategame techs that are just wayy too cheap.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The late game techs are only too cheap if you have a lot of cities with high tech output.

I tend to think that FfH should, like Rhye's, balance it out so that larger civs need at least a little more research than smaller ones to get techs, so early expansion isn't so critical to advancement.



Mostly though, I think that the Eras need readjusting.

 

[Chandrasekhar]

The late game techs are only too cheap if you have a lot of cities with high tech output.

If by "high" tech output, you mean "more than the average AI," then yeah, I suppose so. Still, some of the more tech-minded AIs have managed to bring in more gold than I do lategame, and I always end up researching the tier-4 unit techs in no more than 10 turns on epic speed.

Era rebalancing wouldn't be a bad thing, of course, but I personally wouldn't notice either way.