Suggestion: New Mercenary mechanic

[GePap]

Having been playing FfH only since version .30, I have seen only two different mercenary mechanics, that of the old guild system, and the current one. I would like to suggest a third one that I think might be more equitable to both humans and the AI.

I think that any civ that researches currency should be able to hire mercenaries in any city with a marketplace building in it. The cost of the mercenary should be high, say 250 gold. The benefit of building the Guild of Nine wonder would be to lower the cost by half, and would allow the holder to hire mercenaries in any city, even without a marketplace.

Another suggestion is that the race of the mercenary unit should be randomly given. That would allow for some variation for the troops one gets, and would be thematically appropriate.

Finally, I think that mercenary units should have a small but still real chance of cutting and running. This is after all why states finally ended using mercenary armies, because their loyalty was questionable. Whether in attack, or defense, there should be a small possibility, say 2% per combat, that the unit will simply desert you. Not become a barbarian, but simply get up and go back to whereever they came. That would lessen the appeal of simply buying yourself an army and steamrolling the enemy.

 

[LUEser]

If any building should allow mercenaries it should be the tavern or inn, I rarely feel the need to build them due to their high costs.

 

[Inkling]

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I think that any civ that researches currency should be able to hire mercenaries in any city with a marketplace building in it. The cost of the mercenary should be high, say 250 gold. The benefit of building the Guild of Nine wonder would be to lower the cost by half, and would allow the holder to hire mercenaries in any city, even without a marketplace.

i agree here, and having just played hippus with the guild of the nine, that is just too much power to give to someone for completing a single wonder. though 250 seems prohibitive.

If any building should allow mercenaries it should be the tavern or inn, I rarely feel the need to build them due to their high costs.

that sounds better for the prereq building

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Another suggestion is that the race of the mercenary unit should be randomly given. That would allow for some variation for the troops one gets, and would be thematically appropriate.

always wanted this done

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Finally, I think that mercenary units should have a small but still real chance of cutting and running. This is after all why states finally ended using mercenary armies, because their loyalty was questionable. Whether in attack, or defense, there should be a small possibility, say 2% per combat, that the unit will simply desert you. Not become a barbarian, but simply get up and go back to whereever they came. That would lessen the appeal of simply buying yourself an army and steamrolling the enemy.

i could argue with you on mercenary use, but that would distract from the discussion, so i won't. Instead, to the point, i dispise loosing well trained soldiers because once again, the random number generator took a dump on my head. its bad enough that there is a very real chance i may loose the guy when i throw him into a 99.7 percent chance of victory battle, now every time i fight i have two very real chances of loosing him. ugh, no thanks. There is far too much randomness in Civ4, and infintely more in FFH2, i would strongly advise against adding even more.

 

[Fafnir13]

It's been suggested before that a building allows mercenary hires and the wonder places that building in all of your cities. I'm not sure if the team ever weighed in on it. The slight increase in gold cost does seem to make it seem like they think of it as something of an issue, but I agree that a little more still needs to be done.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

I really think that the Hire Mercenary spell should work like Magnadine's Hire spell, triggering an event that lets you choose from several units at different prices. All of these should came with the Mercenary promotion, which might increase their upkeep and cost a little gold per battle. Mercenaries as distinct units should cease to exist. Mercenaries should be able to hire other mercenaries, and units in the same stack as other civ's mercenary units should be able to cast a spell to bribe the mercs to change sides. Alternately, it may be better to make the Hire Mercenary spell simply have to be cast while on the same tile as a unit with the Mercenary promotion (no longer requiring that it be cast in cities). I'm thinking that the original mercs would be available though an occasional dungeon outcome or random events available after Currency, and that Magnadine would start with the Mercenary promotion so the Hippus wouldn't be dependent on any such random event.


I'm also open to making Mercenary units have limited duration (probably something like 10 turns) but allowing a "Renew Contract" spell that adds more turns to their duration in exchange for gold. I'd also consider making Mercs turn barbarian if you just run out of money to pay them, requiring you cast a gold-costing "Termination Fee" spell if you want to be rid of them safely.


I'm thinking it could be nice if some fraction of the gold used to hire mercenaries (or renew/terminate their contracts) went to whoever owns the Guild of the Nine wonder. Perhaps if Mercs are hired though mercs belonging to another civ a fraction of the gold should go to that merc's owner too.


I do think that mercenary races should be random (and, more than that, the units hired should sometimes be other civ's UUs), perhaps weighted towards the race of the existing mercenary unit used to hire the others.

 

[zup]

I'm not so keen about renew contract. That's just more micromanagement. Just increase their upkeep please.

Guild of the Nine really should get me cash. Not that it will, because AI does not use mercs. At least Arturus did not when he beat me to it once. But maybe Khazad are just stingy with their gold.

I also like that mercenaries are just normal units and maybe even uus. random races = win too.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

The Khazad are specifically programmed never to hire any Mercenaries. I don't recall other civs hiring them either though, at least not a lot and not recently. Back when Mercenaries were built instead of just hired they would really spam them,

 

[WarKirby]

My thoughts then

Tavern or inn as a hiring building.

Some reasonable initial outlay. Rather than just setting a price, see next.

Rather than just having a "Mercenary" unit, which I think is pretty silly. Why not just allow us to hire mercenary versions of any mundane units (IE, warriors, axemen, archers, horsemen, etc. But not things like immortals, any arcane or disciple units or anything else that you would expect to be rare) Price of initial hiring would depend on unit type. Axeman and archer could be 50 gold or so, horseman 100, champion 150 (same strength and price as current mercenary unit) etc.

Mercenary units hired would have the Mercenary promotion, which would deduct a set amount of gold from your treasury per turn as their wages In addition to normal unit upkeep(1 gold in most cases, maybe more for more powerful units), and would make the unit delete if you have insufficient gold.

Last effect of the mercenary promotion, is that it would give the unit a chance of running away when ordered to attack or defend against bad odds, before fighting, and taking the initial hiring fee with them. This chance would be equal to half the chance of losing. So if you throw someone up against 60% odds, they would have a 20% chance of just running away instead of fighting ((100 - 60)/2)

By running away, I really just mean the unit would delete.

And as a little safeguard, the chance of running away would be reduced to 0% if it falls below some acceptable margin, like 5%. As they would be confident of victory and would fight on bravado.

Also, I agree with zup. The renew contract, and termination fee things, just sound like too much micromanagement. I think you shouldn't need to do anything beyond hiring them, and making sure you have enough in the treasury to keep them paid.



Edit: Oh, and maybe mercenary units should start with hidden nationality, too.

Not sure. Would that be overpowered?

 

[jwin]

Even in bad conditions, most mercenary groups were pretty comitted because if they retreate, they would never work again. Even if they lost most of their group, some would be able to work again in the future (I don't think of a destroyed mercenary unit being completely killed, but the survivors just going back home from the field)

On the other side, if a ruler keeps hiring mercs to do the worst of the fighting, future units would think twice about working for him. You could implement this by having the price per unit increase for each merc unit you have lost. This would slow down spamming them, and give some significance to using them as throw away units.

 

[Avahz Darkwood]

My thoughts then

Edit: Oh, and maybe mercenary units should start with hidden nationality, too.

Not sure. Would that be overpowered?

I tried to have the mercs in my Hippus Flavor Mod to have Hidden Nationality, but they just turned around and attack the hippus capital, or got hit by hippus units... So any thing like that, they would have to either be transported to your lands or purchased within your boarders.

 

[WarKirby]

Even in bad conditions, most mercenary groups were pretty comitted because if they retreate, they would never work again.

If they retreat, they might get a bad rep, and have trouble finding work again

If they die, then they'll never work again. Most sane people would retreat if defeat seemed certain.

 

[Fafnir13]

On the other side, if a ruler keeps hiring mercs to do the worst of the fighting, future units would think twice about working for him. You could implement this by having the price per unit increase for each merc unit you have lost. This would slow down spamming them, and give some significance to using them as throw away units.

So long as the price also drops back to normal over time, I would love that mechanic. Nothing to stop the player from building a huge group and sacrificing them all, but that's the reward for managing to keep that much gold on your royal person at one time.