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[Suggestion/Vote] Tune down gold stealing

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by saamohod, Jan 20, 2020.

?

Your thoughts on current spy gold stealing rate

  1. Should be tuned down a lot

  2. Should be tuned down a bit

  3. Leave it as it is

Results are only viewable after voting.
  1. Deljade

    Deljade Warlord

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2019
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    I... don't think I've ever had this problem? And I've had some massive treasuries, mainly with commerce raiders. Maybe it'd be wise to build the security building available to you and send counterspies in affected cities? Do you have any other mods that may affect this?
     
  2. azum4roll

    azum4roll Emperor

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    Are you even using the latest version? Gold stealing had been massively tuned down several months ago.
     
    andersw likes this.
  3. General_Drax

    General_Drax Warlord

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    This.

    Though I think in the old version marked as stable there was still this kind of behaviour.
     
  4. saamohod

    saamohod Prince

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2014
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    Unoccupied Ukraine
    Of course, I'm using April 17 version.

    EDIT: Gold stealing indeed was tuned down a lot. I mean, spies don't steal thousands of gold at a time anymore, they only steal hundreds. But when your income is hundreds per turn, and all of it gets cleared by a single spy, and after one day again, and then again and it keeps going so that you cannot upgrade a single unit which would cost 500-1000 gold... you just snap.

    No mods.
    There are no security buildings available except Constabulary at the current era and won't be for quite a while. My counterspies only occasionally help when it comes to prevent stealing a tech, but not against gold stealing. At least I only get messages that a foreign spy was killed trying to steal a tech, I can't remember it saying he was trying to steal money.
     
    Last edited: Jun 5, 2020
    Zuizgond, InkAxis and SwirlSlayer like this.
  5. CppMaster

    CppMaster Emperor

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    I haven't played for about a year (still waiting for a new version), so maybe I don't know about that. How do you keep any treasury in any of the cities? Do you mean Great Works?
     
  6. Zuizgond

    Zuizgond Prince

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2016
    Messages:
    564
    I think gold stealing should be tuned down even more (4-17 version). AI just stole 2800ish (total gold is 6150 and gold/turn is 1200). I know 1200 is quite significant (I just entered into a golden age btw) and I know the amount of gold stolen is based on current income but I still think it's too high, especially during golden ages.
     
  7. andersw

    andersw Emperor

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    sweden
    With a lvled up spy (send first one to city state to lvl up) and constabulary its not that bad, sometimes I get robbed a bit harder or hit heavy on great person points but it probably means I'm very high up on the board and gives atleast some hope for catching up.
     
    JamesNinelives likes this.
  8. Tekamthi

    Tekamthi Prince

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    Aug 12, 2016
    Messages:
    491
    agree with OP and others that the gold-stealing issue can be frustrating, though i think the issue at its core is players naturally feel that they should be able to make more tactical, in-the-moment decisions to avert these spy penalties -- ie some spy vs spy action... both vanilla and VP only offer long-term spy-mitigation options: if you didn't make the right decision 100-200+ turns ago, you just have to suffer through the enemy spy activity.

    i'm not sure there's much that can be done that wouldn't effectively nerf spy's utility in current mechanisms... maybe having an option for city to dedicate production towards espionage defense, or include this under the existing defence production option? and have that output sufficient to catch most spies regardless of policies etc... can sacrifice economy for severe spying problems, and in theory enemy spies could see whats up in the city production and decide to relocate (or not)
     
  9. JamesNinelives

    JamesNinelives Emperor

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    I think gold stealing at the moment is in a good place :). I'm able to regularly kill spies in my capital who are trying to steal stuff. One thing that annoys me is that Statecraft grants spies before I have any to defend myself with. Late-game it's not such a big deal though. Eventually you get money from killing spies and if your agents are levelled up (from defending) while other people only have L1 spies (because they keep dying) that gives you a significant advantage.

    If anything, I find tech stealing to be more meaningful, as it's more than a few turns worth of science. Or production disruption when I'm trying to build a wonder. Generally though, I think espionage does more good for those that are behind than those who are ahead though.

    Perhaps something that could be adjusted is allowing the diplo modifier for pardoning someone for spying on you to stack. I don't think it does at the moment and it's a little annoying when I pardon forgive someone four or five times but they don't seem to much care. For context, this is in situations where for example I have an ally who I don't want to denounce or declare war on. Particularly if they aren't very strong I want to support them against warmongers, but they keep spying on me...
     
    InkAxis likes this.
  10. Galaphile0125

    Galaphile0125 Duke

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    I personally think a building like the bank or something similar should maybe add some type of defense against stealing on top of counterespionage or it would at least lessen how much is stolen. It would be because your national gold stockpile is safer in a bank vaults or a secure treasury than it had been in earlier ages. Just a thought.
     
  11. Recursive

    Recursive Covets Lands That You Currently Own Moderator

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    It has a value of -5 for 50 turns (scaling) which is hardly impactful and does not stack. However if you don't forgive them it erases the modifier.

    I did however program the AI for next version to be less likely to spy on their allies like this.
     
  12. Der_Zorn_gottes

    Der_Zorn_gottes King

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    I used to have 50% of my treasury stolen - but this was way back, more than a year.
    Nowadays it is more in the 5% range, which seems perfectly reasonable.
     
  13. saamohod

    saamohod Prince

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    That was a sarcasm addressed at the fact that a single foreign spy in my city is able to wipe my entire treasury.
     
  14. Vhozite

    Vhozite Warlord

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    One big thing I don’t like about this mechanic is that I feel like it’s kind of...uninteractive? Before police stations what usually happens is I get a notification about an enemy spy in a city, I place a counter-spy there, then I just sit and hope I don’t get boned for 500 gold each turn while waiting for the AI to try and steal a tech.
     

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