1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Suggestions and requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    A complete collapse already brings back all the dead civs whose territory has been held, as long as it's the right timeframe for their respawn.

    And losing your complete core already causes a complete collapse. By the way, there are three ways to collapse regardless of stability:
    - losing your entire core
    - losing more than a third of your cities to barbarians
    - losing more than half of your cities over a span of 12 turns

    On what? The warscore stuff?
     
  2. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    Yep. :) It's war success btw.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    I know, playing too much EUIV right now.

    Um yeah, what's your point exactly? I knew where to modify what. It's the consequences of these changes that make this complicated.
     
  4. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    Ok, ok. I'll shut myself up. Just wanted to help. You said you didn't know how it worked and I badly inferred out of that. :sad:
     
  5. apenpaap

    apenpaap Tsar of all the Internets

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,468
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Now that you mention that, many of the respawn dates don't seem quite right. They tend to take the "actual" respawn date as the very first date possible, which in-game actually means they are unlikely to respawn around that date, but tend to do so later.

    For example, Prussia's respawn dates are 1870-2020. However, if the beginning date was moved a bit earlier, to say 1840, a respawn somewhere around 1870 would be more likely, since they could also respawn 10 years before then rather than just afterwards.
     
  6. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Exiled

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,738
    He has a pretty handsome point.
     
  7. SheaferDaDawg

    SheaferDaDawg Intelligent Canine

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    429
    Location:
    The land of Cheese and Banking
    It any good? The only Paradox title I have is Victoria 2, and I was wondering if it would be good to get now or wait a while for patches and expansions.
     
  8. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    No problem. I just couldn't see what kind of feedback you were expecting from me.

    I haven't played Vicky so I can't compare, but it's free of bugs and crashes as far as I can tell, models history a lot better than EU3 did and has been a lot of fun so far. A couple of mechanics don't work out right now but I would say it's playable without further patches or expansions. There's a demo where you can play as four nations for 18 years by the way.
     
  9. SheaferDaDawg

    SheaferDaDawg Intelligent Canine

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2010
    Messages:
    429
    Location:
    The land of Cheese and Banking
    Well then, eventually Steam will have a sale and I will try it out. Currently, colonizing Africa and bashing the British as America is taking up far too much of my time :rolleyes:
     
  10. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Exiled

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,738
    That's exactly what I've been doing! :D
     
  11. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    Just wanted to know what I wrote (the code part) made sense.
    Now I think about it. We have 5 types of war success. Unless you want to create a new XML variable for a new war success type, I suggest ya (this is the suggestion thread :p) to take the War Success for capture of workers/settlers that is already worth 1 point and use that one for population and wonders. Wonders will be worth 1 war success each one that is still active and each 2 pop is also worth 1 war success, which means odd number are rounded down. And at last, we keep the 10 war success default for a city.

    E.G. A city of 20 pop with 5 wonders will be worth of 25 war success points. So, very small nations can be capitulated with one city and several units. And that's not that broken (I think) because the chain capitulation has its limit: 5 vassals. And anyways, capitulating small nations are almost never good decisions.

    Now what do you think of this.

    BTW, for people information, the denial AI uses after "we're fine on our own" is "You're joking, right!", which is the one that is related to war success. It is explicitly shown in the code that you need at least 40 war success points (hence the 10 units are equivalent to 4 cities) to break that last denial and reap the vassal. Just to give a relative number to the 25 war success points for a city of 20 pop within which are constructed 5 still active wonders (obsoleted ones should be discounted of course).
     
  12. Leoreth

    Leoreth 心の怪盗団 Moderator

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2009
    Messages:
    34,405
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Leblanc
    I think we need to do more than that.

    The fact that defeating enemy units gives a flat value doesn't make sense. Your success should be based on the relative strength of your armies, or the enemy strength compared to when the war started.
     
  13. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Exiled

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,738
    That's a double edged sword, really. That would stop imperial powers from vassalizing so quickly, as you don't count the colonies as much anymore. Large nations like Russia would be nearly impossible to vassalize since they produce military units so quickly; which I suppose is a good thing.
     
  14. apenpaap

    apenpaap Tsar of all the Internets

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2008
    Messages:
    1,468
    Location:
    Amsterdam
    Yeah, it makes sense that Russia would be very hard to capitulate. After all, they lost half their core and had the rest pretty wrecked several times in real life and didn't capitulate.
     
  15. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    It already exists: "We're fine on our own!" denial, which has priority over war success denial is indirectly correlated to the strength of their army (in fact power rating which is a sum of tech, land, unit, building and wonders).

    I think you need to make your changes there, not the war success system.

    IIRC, that denial is triggered when the potential capitulee has over 2/3 the average power of the world. Just erased the older one and make a new one from scratch that make a comparison of both nations involved in the war.

    Remember that Ancient New World nations will have a much harder times when attacking old world civs in the scope of your conceptualization.
     
  16. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    Once understanding how capitulation works, Russia is easy. Unless you are trying late game, which is normally hard because they get such a huge army plus population that their power rating makes them refuse capitulation through "We're fine on our own!'.

    It's important to separate those two excuses: "We're fine on our own!" and "You're joking, right?".
    The first is the one that makes capitulation most of time hard. The second is easy if you know what you are doing (like not suiciding tons of weak units on highly defended cities).
     
  17. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    In fact, it would be already impossible late game. As I said, war success doesn't have anything with what you are all talking about.
    If the AI is already top dog with huge amount of units plus land like Russia, the "We're fine on own" will eternally last...until you literally destroy their militia. But that is hard with their UP.
     
  18. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Exiled

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,738
    I guess that's one special thing about Russia; nearly impossible to capitulate. No nations ever went into Russia looking for their surrender anyways, they just wanted their land. That I know of.
     
  19. Manco Capac

    Manco Capac Friday,13 June,I Collapse

    Joined:
    Mar 1, 2010
    Messages:
    8,051
    I said late Russia is theoritically incredibly hard to capitulate without pushing them over the edge (collapse), but 10 turns after their spawn or a little later, easy peasy to capitulate them.
     
  20. Royal Tenenbaum

    Royal Tenenbaum Exiled

    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2012
    Messages:
    2,738
    Unless you're Indonesia.
     

Share This Page