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Suggestions and requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. Tomorrow's Dawn

    Tomorrow's Dawn Heroes Never Die

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    But those results are based on Marathon.

    Anyone can get the ball rolling with stacked modifiers and enough settled Specialists on the game speed.
    Normal Industrial is just fine as is; the only thing of note is that Rifles + MGs finally shift the offensive-oriented meta to a defensive one,
    as Cavs get stopped cold by Rifles even though they can slip through MGs to an extent.
    In tandem though, they cover each other's weaknesses almost perfectly and even defend adequately against aerial bombardment.
    Industrial war at parity for late starts (1700AD) and generated 3000BC games really tends to bog down quite a bit,
    and for that reason, I do oppose adding more bloat to stretch out the era.
    This also comes with repercussions to the Prussian and Japanese UHVs as well, forcing the waiting game to be even more prolonged and generally a waste of turns.

    The above encapsulates a sizable portion of my rationale towards the addition of new techs.
     
  2. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    If we don't want games where a few players start accelerating the entire game technology-wise, there could just be more increased tech costs for the top few players starting in the Industrial Era.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Yeah sure, I wasn't too serious about that.

    Regardless of this, I also feel that MGs come too early from a historical point of view. First large scale uses of machine guns were the ACW and the Zulu war, which puts them in the latter half of the 19th century while I would place the Railroads tech roughly at its beginning at the latest.
     
  4. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    There already is a diminishing returns effect for tech leaders.
     
  5. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    Yeah I know, but it should be increased in the industrial era for more leaders.
     
  6. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    Leoreth, have you seen this thread? Perhaps you'd like to consider it.
    It did mention some disadvantages if used for DoC though so probably you've considered it before silently.
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I remember this, seems like a good idea.
     
  8. Daedwartin

    Daedwartin Emperor

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    So something silly happened:
    I have open borders with everyone i can contact, everyone is pleased or more.

    -1 bad relations. um...ok.
    The real kicker: -7 economic isolation...uhh, yeah....I currently have the highest value in the world for import/export, at 20.

    It did soon become a more reasonable +10 from trade. but why was it i was getting the economic isolation penalty?
    I also had great lighthouse(pure luck. no one ever made it. so i decided i needed the extra routes.
    edit: i think i did this in the wrong thread, i meant to put this in bugs.
     
  9. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    I would like to suggest creating a some kind of DoC Lounge thread where we can chit-chat, discuss off-topic-ly, get to know each other more, share news of new archaeology or history discovery, whatever. Much like the Would you know Leoreth thread, but this one is not specific to one person, just to strengthen our growing community haha.
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    You can create it yourself. Please don't be too off-topic though, discussion of controversial topics is better left to the dedicated OT forums.
     
  11. borhap88

    borhap88 Prince

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    In Marathon speed, some civilizations reach Optics and Astronomy too much early, IMO (14th century), so Aztecs and Incas are usually invaded by pretty medieval troops. Same early situation for colonization; in 15th century there are some untouchable settlements along East Coast.
    I think it's suitable to link the discovery of Optics to another previous discovery, just like Gunpowder, just as Rifling was made necessary to build Trading Company.
    I also think that will spice some UHV colonization-related.

    EDIT

    After a quick wiki-research, I've learnt that Caravel and Arquebus (the real widely used firegun until 17th century) and European Bombard too were contemporaries; they developed in the second half of 15th century, whereas Galleon developed from 1534.
     
  12. The Diocletian

    The Diocletian Fire Fly

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    Also, on a somewhat related note, India seems to make a hard beeline for Optics plus Astronomy. Intended?
     
  13. borhap88

    borhap88 Prince

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    Uhm...I've changed the pre-requested tech for Optics including Gunpowder and in some Normal speed tests, the effect is that...a lot of Euro-civs fight with guns in 14th century :(
    Maybe just increasing the beakers needed for Optics or lowering its flavor to be reserched could work.
     
  14. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Oh well, might as well provide something useful out of my time wasting... I guess I have more gripes, but my lack of documenting them makes me have a tendency to forget about them as quickly as I noticed them. But here's one I remember:
    Plague was changed in DoC so it doesn't kill units, but it still affects all units the same, even those without a combat stat. The game does support damage display on these kind of units, so a damaged worker is displayed as a 1-man graphic instead of two, a damaged settler is missing some kids... but it does nothing to them aside from that. A damaged worker doesn't work at a slower rate, a damaged spy is just as effective at spying... It does make all of them have the wait until healed button glowing, which is kind of annoying.
    So to save some processing and make plague effects more consistent, shouldn't plague be skipping non-combatant units in general?
    Also worth looking into the Russian UP, which causes 8% damage/turn to all units and can kill them, even GP and spies, but only when at war. I suppose if an enemy worker or settler is foolish enough to try to cross Russian territory when at war with them, he'll find no help from the rural folk to endure the crude winter, but spies are supposed to blend in just fine. I'm using something like:
    EDIT: Ah yes I've remembered now: Pagan. In the 600AD scenario all is fine and dandy, too bad the AI Khmer seem too stupid to actually get to it (maybe flip it to them automatically?), but in the 3000BC scenario, Pagan spawns as an independent city with no garrison, and soon enough a barbarian war elephant will appear nearby intended to mess with China or India, but you can guess where he finds an easy prize... invariably the Khmer will find nothing but a pile of ruins requiring another settler to be built (again, the AI Khmer are kinda hopeless)
    It's too bad that Shwedagon Paya will almost invariably be built by India way sooner than the Khmer can have a shoot at it (same thing with Indonesia and Borobudur, but what you're gonna do... I very much prefer that to DoC being tweaked to the point of becoming "History on Rails 2: Mongol Trainwreck". Sorry, that sounded funnier in my head), but making a city spawn just to be destroyed a few turns later seems like quite a waste just to leave the birthing civ scratching their heads at the sight. So, perhaps Pagan could be made to spawn as barbarian, or be more safe from razing, or flip to Khmer on spawn, or any combination thereof?
     
  15. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Good point. The Russian UP can be more sensible in general. There even is a check for whether units are capable of fighting which should cover all cases.

    I also agree about Pagan.
     
  16. morff

    morff Warlord

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    Also it would be great if you would be so kind and implemented "drain marsh" feature as seen in other civ iv mods (not sure which one at this moment and in civ v too i guess, but i'm not playing it, because i don't like it at all). I really miss this feature :) But i think it was discussed and rejected already.
     
  17. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I think that if it were the case, it should only be made possible with an extremely late technology. I think Ecology would be good for that.
     
  18. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Marshes are there to block tiles that are not supposed to be settled/worked. Allowing to deplete them would defeat their purpose.
     
  19. mrrandomplayer

    mrrandomplayer Hopeless Situation Warrior

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    I understand that, but for the people who play up to 2020, they quickly become unrealistic and annoying. Ecology is discovered quite late, so that's why I think that would satisfy the people who want to play late but don't want to let all of these tiles go to waste, and simultaneously not negatively impact people playing for UHV or domination (since marshes rarely matter for those two).
     
  20. The Diocletian

    The Diocletian Fire Fly

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    About marshes; I play with resource bubbles on, and since marshes are technically a resource, they show a bubble. When they're grouped together, as they often are, it just looks so displeasing to the eye. At some point, could you possibly change how marshes work so they don't show up as a bubble?

    Oh, and one other thing: Netherlands does not start with Printing Press, which seems a little odd considering 90% of the time all other Western Europeans will already be at Replaceable Parts, and occasionally they have Rifling. This means that the Netherlands is quite far off from Dikes, which are essential to counteract the low productivity of Amsterdam. Could Netherlands possibly start with Printing Press?

    edit: But backpedaling from my second point, in the late game AI Netherlands is far too strong. They're consistently top five in the scoreboard and a tech leader. They could definitely use a nerf.
     

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