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Suggestions and requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 20, 2011.

  1. BenZL43

    BenZL43 awkward cat

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    Suggestion: Reducing the inclination of AI Greece to build Sparta in 3000BC.
     
  2. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    From my last post speaking of national wonders, a pair of them in DoC are somewhat problematic due to being set as such: Interpol/Scotland yard and the Triumphal Arch. They get destroyed if the city they're in changes hands, which for the first case is quite a loss of a Great Spy's work, and for the second in the rare case you lose your capital also stings. Also, they take up a national wonder slot, admittedly not much of a problem with enough cities, but for the triumphal arch that means your capital can either end up with 4 NW if you time it, or be limited to having chosen 2 at most for it if not. Finally, Interpol is a glass and steel building which doesn't fit in ancient or medieval city landscapes, shouldn't it have a tech requirement like academies?

    My suggestion would be to make both regular buildings that are always captured (with the arch giving no culture if it has changed hands). I suppose arches could be abused if playing with the option to allow AIs to score UHV goals, but when was the last time any of them got 2 out of 3? Also, if the idea is to prevent players from dotting their cities with Interpol buildings and have mad spionage, maybe it could be limited in the dll so a player can only build 1 Interpol building of his own, yet enjoy any others he happens to capture, or heck just lower its output to 75% or 50% to keep things simple, compared to other GP great spies are not too easy to get.
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Still have to think about the duplicate national wonders. Interpol should probably either be renamed to a more era-neutral name, or become associated with a tech. The glass and steel stuff annoys me too, but that can be solved by era-dependent graphics I think.
     
  4. Hippo8085

    Hippo8085 Shaken, not stirred

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    I agree that they should start with Printing Press both for the above-stated reason and because this way they will automatically found Protestantism if it is not already. It can be like with Arabia, so Dutch start with Protestantism as state religion no matter what and it is founded when Amsterdam is settled (they still start with a Protestant missionary in case it is already founded, something that should be the case for Arabia with Islam).

    Reformation occurs now with same mechanics under current conditions OR at (turn for year 1580)+1. Dutch are considered as part of the Protestant-converting group, but are protected by 10 turns after spawn. Not having Protestantism founded happens infrequently enough that it is not worth starting over and over to have this situation for the human, but this serves as a check.

    I don't remember if you were around back when they started at 1500, but it was even worse then (games as Russia involved 2-3 spies in Amsterdam at a given time). Out of curiosity, were their tech modifiers adjusted their spawn was moved? If I recall correctly, the same starting techs are present, and 16 turns was supposed to be enough to slow them down without any adjustments.

    In either case, I suggest making them at normal European levels (my guess is they are not because of the later start) as soon as the Netherlands researches Assembly Line, because it means that they have a decent amount of cities (AL requires Corp requires Econ, so TC has occurred), and because it allows them to have a modern defense for a while, even if their tech rate drops off.

    Also on the Dutch: they have a tendency towards leaving Amsterdam quite defenseless, often by the time I can take it over in 1630 having only an un-promoted longbowman or two (if that, sometimes there are only East Indiamen) to guard the city. Either the Dutch under-build units, which could be the case and would explain somewhat why their tech rate is so high, or their UU is actually a disadvantage to the AI. When the AI colonizes, they fill the ship with a settler and units, so with the capacity of 4, my guess is that they are sending three units with the settler, leaving nothing back in Amsterdam. AI colonizing behavior would have to be changed to truly solve this, but I think a quick fix would be to fill the starting colonizing ships.
     
  5. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Wow, this is getting long...

    In easternmost Siberia there's a Fur and Deer resources, XY coordinates 106 62 and 107 61, impossible to land in any city's BFC due to the area being tundra and snow. Of course a city pretending to thrive just on those will have a hard time, but it's difficult enough to fill the gaps there when expanding as imperial Russia. The nearest settable sites require 500 culture before either of those will fall in their frontiers. For the sake of being able to grab those resources early enough, would it be possible to make one of the more nearby plots fertile enough to allow settling?

    Also regarding resources, the AI has no clue to ship workers to the ones that are on islands. Perhaps resources.py could be used to automate their exploitation at certain dates if the necessary improvement and road has not been built, only if they are currently in AI territory?
    The ones I see as benefiting from that: Sicilian sheep at 58 43, Crete wine at 68 39, Sri Lanka if the Tamils fail to settle it (happens often), west Papua spices and dye at 111 26 and 111 27, and finally anything in the Caribbean, though that depends on where the AI settles, spices at 32 37 are a given though due to jungle.
    Huh, I guess I forgot Hawaii, but good luck seeing an AI settling there.

    A suggestion for Mali, they never settle Accra at 54 26, probably because they don't like that most land units won't be able to travel there in case of need due to surrounding jungles. It's a shame since it's the best port city they can hope for, and would be a target for European colonialism, so the image of it being under Dutch control in the 1700AD scenario is impossible in the other two since that would require doing away with their other cities as well to make way to settle.
    Since it's in their core area, would it be a good idea to have an independent city spawn there to be flipped to them, with enough garrison for them to be at peace, for the AI only? Kind of like German AI has free Hamburg as a stopgap against Viking Copenhagen.

    Hopefully the last one for now, I see that Aztecs are referred to as Mexicans and Incas to Peruvians if they manage to survive long enough (yeah, world builder helps with that :mischief:), Germans get renamed to Austrians to make way for the Prussian master race :p , maybe more that I don't know of...
    Shouldn't the Vikings get the same treatment too, so after the Middle Ages they are referred to as the Swedes? Or would that be a disservice to Norwegians, Danish or even Fins? AFAIK Sweden has been the main political actor in that area after the Viking era.
     
  6. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    I was under the impression that this already happens to the Vikings.
     
  7. FinalLegendZero

    FinalLegendZero Prince

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    Confirmed.
     
  8. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    Well it doesn't happen in my games, the territory is displayed as "X% Viking" and the other AIs refer to them as Vikings. Is it due to something in the SVN perhaps?
     
  9. DC123456789

    DC123456789 Deity

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    The Dynamic Names change to refer to Sweden but their adjective remains Viking.
     
  10. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    The latter is also supposed to happen, but only if their capital is Stockholm.
     
  11. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Thanks to this discussion, I now know which civ I will try to include next week: Sweden. (I want to try it with the guide, but didn't know which civ, until now)
     
  12. Red Boxer

    Red Boxer Prince

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    Redacted
     
  13. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    A suggestion before I forget.

    I see in CvPlayer::canFound, the Congo ability to settle in jungles and marshes is coded as:
    Code:
    if (pPlot->getFeatureType() != NO_FEATURE && getID() != CONGO)	//Leoreth: Congolese UP: can found in jungle
    {
    	if (GC.getFeatureInfo(pPlot->getFeatureType()).isNoCity())
    	{
    		return false;
    	}
    }
    but this also allows them to settle in marshes. Also, I was thinking of easing settling in jungle tiles once the player has Biology, so that those tropical islands become more attractive for both player and AIs to settle, otherwise the AI can't figure he should bring a detachment of workers to clear the jungle first before settling. My suggestion would be to change that block to something like this:
    Code:
    if (pPlot->getFeatureType() != NO_FEATURE)
    {
    	if (GC.getFeatureInfo(pPlot->getFeatureType()).isNoCity())
    	{
    		if (pPlot->getFeatureType() == GC.getInfoTypeForString("FEATURE_JUNGLE"))	//Leoreth: Congolese UP: can found in jungle
    		{
    			if (getID() != CONGO) && !(GET_TEAM(getTeam()).isHasTech((TechTypes)BIOLOGY))
    			{
    				return false;
    			}
    		}
    		else
    		{
    			return false;
    		}
    	}
    }
     
  14. Leoreth

    Leoreth Prince of Blood Moderator

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    Good idea. By the way, when quoting code, you can use the [code][/code] environment to properly display it.
     
  15. Hippo8085

    Hippo8085 Shaken, not stirred

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    Please reduce the tendency of AI to build missionaries. Religion already spreads quite effectively in this mod, so except for a human UHV they are somewhat redundant for their intended purpose. Additionally, the AI, specifically China and Byzantium overbuild them, resulting in Orthodoxy throughout western Europe and Confucianism throughout India.

    A couple other things:
    - Provide missionaries of the civilization's state religion when and with the new world conquerors.
    - (I doubt there is a nice way to do this, but) Make it such that the default religion spread to colonies is the state religion, rather than the religion weighted for that civilization. Example: if Spain goes Protestant, its colonies in North America will receive Protestantism rather than Catholicism, or the opposite for England.
    - Conquerors of the Aztecs when the Mayans are dead could use some extra units to help take the ex-Mayan cities. Otherwise one only gets one set of conquerors for two sets of cities.
     
  16. cudfather

    cudfather Prince

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    Disagree on the Aztec/no-Maya thing. It's not two sets of cities, but Aztec cities + Yax Mutal (Chichen Itza is laughable, and can't be accessed because of jungle anyway).
    Let the human Aztecs survive.
     
  17. Hippo8085

    Hippo8085 Shaken, not stirred

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    In any case I would say the Aztec conquerors should be at the same magnitude of units as the Inca. Either way you are usually taking an equivalent number of cities... in fact I might argue that conquerors for Aztecs/Maya should come together at the Inca magnitude with war on both.

    About the Chichen Itza not accessible... maybe Natives should start with Calendar or have a plantation built there at the start of the 600 AD scenario.
     
  18. migck

    migck Señor de la guerra

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    I'd like to propose a standardization of some buildings, specifically wonders in RFC which were national wonders in vanilla and are still keeping attributes from them, like having 1GPP/turn instead of 2 like world wonders do:
    - Flavian Amphitheatre: iGreatPeopleRateChange upped to 2, addition of:
    Code:
    			<CommerceChangeOriginalOwners>
    				<bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>0</bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>
    				<bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>0</bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>
    				<bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>1</bCommerceChangeOriginalOwner>
    			</CommerceChangeOriginalOwners>
    so that it won't give culture when it changes hands.
    - Triumphal Arch: either set iGreatPeopleRateChange to 0, or associate a GreatPeopleUnitClass with it, by default it gives 1 GPP but has no great people class associated. Also I figured how you list special abilities for buildings, it's with the Help field, so we can use that with a TXT_KEY_BUILDING_NATIONAL_EPIC_HELP, change TXT_KEY_MIN_LATITUDE in the Civ4GameText_Victory2.xml text file to that, and remove the iMinLatitude value.
    - CERN: addition of the CommerceChangeOriginalOwners field like before.
    - Mt Rushmore: iGreatPeopleRateChange upped to 2, addition of the CommerceChangeOriginalOwners field.
    - Trading company(es): iGreatPeopleRateChange lowered to 1
    - Great Wall: change GreatPeopleUnitClass from engineer to spy? Engineer is what it was set to in Warlords, which RFC started with. Also not sure why Rhys lowered iGreatPeopleRateChange to 1

    Well, I think that's all in that regard.
     
  19. adhiraj.bose

    adhiraj.bose Deity

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    I want to know if there is a cap on forced vassalizations. In a game with v 1.11 I was playing the Chinese. I invaded Mughal territory and fought them to capitulation, but when I tried to excersize the option of capitulation, it showed "you've grown too powerful for us" . I think it is unfair to keep a limitation on forced vassalizations.
     
  20. need my speed

    need my speed Rex Omnium Imperarium

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    Yes there is, and yes, I agree. I just World Buildered them to be my vassal, but not until everyone had sided with Russia and a huge world war had erupted (really, that was kind of awesome, only two nations were neutral). But considering nobody would willingly vassalise to me, and I didn't feel like conquering all cities because of stupid game mechanics...
     

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