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Suggestions and Requests

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall - Dawn of Civilization' started by Leoreth, Sep 11, 2014.

  1. Imp. Knoedel

    Imp. Knoedel Knoedel Imperator Satani Filius Augustus Nooborum

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    I for one am willing to sacrifice hundreds, if not thousands of hours of Leoreth's free time to that end. :lol:
     
    need my speed and Publicola like this.
  2. makka

    makka Chieftain

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    I'm already happy that you used the term 'to take that risk', as that implies that you do not consider it a completely futile request.

    I might also suggest a slight adjustment to the classical wonders, given that the lack of religious prerequisites leads to a less historical distribution; Babylonia often builds the Great Sphinx and the Pyramids while Egypt goes for the Hanging Gardens. Fitting history, the Pyramids could require twice as many hammers, but have marble and gold as additional bonus resources, and be a prerequisite for the Sphinx. I don't know which specifically Mesopotamian condition would fit the Gardens (though stone as a bonus resource feels wrong anyway, the Babylonian architecture, including the Gardens, being known for the lack of stone), but having Egypt opting for their appropriate wonders may be already sufficient to make Babylonian Gardens happen regularly.
    The Oracle and the Great Cothon would be better off, too, I guess, with some kind of Greek/Carthaginian prerequisite, being built quite frequently by other civs. Again, I struggle to come up with something sensible, though. Maybe a minimum of three coastal cities? (What happened to the discussion about the spawn of Independent Knossos, btw?)
     
  3. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    I like the gold modifier for Egyptian wonders.
     
  4. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    I am a bit shocked about the latest commit, moving Indonesia to 650 AD and Khmer to 800 AD, though it looks very interesting to me, tbh. Actually I'd like to see a 1600 BC China spawn too. And maybe a 1380 AD Russian one? (Like Muscovy in RFCE.) Kievan Rus', Novgorod Republic, etc. can be represented by minors (easily done in Barbs.py) and the Mongol conquerors event needs to be tweaked if ever since Russia wouldn't be alive yet by the time of Mongol conquest (1236 AD?).
     
  5. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    I agree with both China and Russia, both those are more invasive changes, what I did here only moved them around by a couple of turns. And even so Khmer probably still needs some UHV balancing.
     
  6. h0spitall3rz

    h0spitall3rz Grand Vizier of Your Mind

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    In what sense are they invasive? I've tried implementing the 1600 BC China one. (Remember when I asked about having to rearrange code just for this? Didn't rearrange constants though because I wanted to see immediate results.) I just had an independent Luoyang spawn 3E of Chang'an in 3000 BC to give them a headstart. So far, no problems that I know of. But then, I don't know if I missed something aside from adjusting the starting stack and techs, or if I put too much of something.
     
  7. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    For balance and game experience I mean.
     
  8. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    This does seem like quite a tricky issue. Roads are in no way feasible to set up during wartime, and increasing movement points would drastically change the flow of combat.

    I'm not sure how historical or game breaking this would be, but what if Scouts could plot paths in neutral territory? Maybe it costs Health to use and they'd have to heal to "regain supplies". Perhaps it could dissappear or degrade over time, unless trodden on by Units. I would imagine this would make reaching enemy cities faster, but the fact it cannot be used in enemy territory would not interfere with seiges and invasions. (As much as other methods, obviously it would make reinforcements more viable)

    Of course, then you'd have to teach the AI to be able to do that, which I'm not sure whether or not that would take longer than the previously mentioned and simpler change.
     
  9. makka

    makka Chieftain

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    I did include the marble modifier not so much to resemble the pyramids' limestone casing, but chiefly to ensure China does not have access to all modifiers, Egypt being the only (ancient) civ to do so.

    What's the actual objective of this? Military campaigns rarely involve neutral territory to be crossed (the only rapid expansion mentioned above that would benefit from this would be into Siberia), so this, again, would come with the drawback of gearing tactical balance towards offense (by facilitating reinforcements through neutral territory), but without speeding up warfare to a historically appropriate scale for the most part.
     
  10. star15389

    star15389 Chieftain

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    I read somewhere that it used to be that AI Mughals got free spread for Islam like the Arabs do. Maybe this should be brought back? Because I see Mughals convert to Buddhism or Hinduism a majority of games
     
    iMuffin and h0spitall3rz like this.
  11. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    Sure, that wasn't an expression of dislike toward the marble modifier, but I just never thought of using gold for Egyptian wonders.
     
  12. 1SDAN

    1SDAN Brother Lady

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    Oh okay, I guess I misunderstood the problem then, sorry.
     
  13. Tigranes

    Tigranes Armenian

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    The most obvious way to discourage road carpet is to turn workers into Civ6 builders, who disappear after using 3 instant charges to instantly build a road on 3 tiles in 3 turns. Walked into the tile, press built, next turn walked into the tile -- built, next turn walked into the tile, built a road and disappeared, poof. And no need for roads to connect resources (like in RFC CW), your culture and improved resource is enough.
     
  14. ales_

    ales_ Heir

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    I wonder whether Leoreth has an Ed Beach shaped statuette as well.
     
  15. killerkebab

    killerkebab Chieftain

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    You could make roads more difficult to obtain as well as more valuable: road costs money to build (which makes sense - real life projects like highways cost millions to build) but provides boost to commerce in return (e.g. improved resources with road get +x :hammers:/:food: because its easier to produce/ship goods, or improved towns with road get +x :commerce: because its easier for people to get to jobs/pay taxes/etc)

    The main idea is to make carpeting your territory with roads less attractive because of the initial investment, but make it worth the investment for specific tiles. The end result should be a network of roads connecting crucial points in your (and everyone else's) territory, which should make your wars more interesting.

    That's more of a general jist; as you might have guessed, I don't know much about game balancing :)
     
  16. Leoreth

    Leoreth 古典部の会員 Moderator

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    who?
     
  17. AtlantaMarty

    AtlantaMarty No longer active

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    The lead designer of (the incredibly ugly looking) Civ 6. He also designed some of the Conquests (Fall of Rome, Middle Ages, Age of Discovery for Civ 3, which is 16 years old and still more attractive than Civ 6. (http://www.civilization3.com/devupdate_fallofrome.cfm)
     
  18. Malchar

    Malchar Chieftain

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    There are many good ideas to make road building harder. However, keep in mind that the original goal was to make war faster. If you let your units use enemy roads as a means of making war faster, and then completely nerf road networks, then the end result is that war is just as slow as ever, and now we also have a much more complicated road/worker system for no reason. Quite frankly, I think that if you find yourself with enough worker turns to carpet your blank territory with roads, then maybe you aren't acquiring new cities fast enough. :D

    Now I have another question that's also related to roads. How is trade route value calculated? If you're playing as France and have a trade route to India which is connected around the southern tip of Africa which has a particular value, and then you build the Suez Canal, shortening the travel distance between France and India, does the trade route value change? Could it? Should it?
     
  19. star15389

    star15389 Chieftain

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    I feel like distance should increase the value of trade routes only to a certain point and then stop. No particularly good reason a Euro civ trading with similarly sized cities in Japan and Africa should get way more commerce from one than the other
     
  20. Malchar

    Malchar Chieftain

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    In a perfect world, I would have the trade route value be increased as the distance between the cities increases, but it should also decrease as the navigable path length increases. In this case, France to India would be a fairly long city distance and good value, but if you don't have access through Suez, then the navigable path length is so long (around Africa) that it cuts the trade route value significantly.

    Of course, you could use any legal trade route path to calculate the navigable distance. You could connect to coastal cities in the Mediterranean that have roads going all the way to India if you can manage to get open borders with the Ottomans. Maybe it would be worth paying 50 gold per turn for open borders if you got that much more commerce in your cities.
     

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