Suggestions - China at Warlord

[WeirdoJoker]

I've played China (C3C) three times. Once at Chieftain I won Domination. The other two at Warlord (one Small map, one Standard) I ended up retiring from once it became apparent there was no path to victory. I'm about to try again on a Tiny map. I don't remember much about one of the losses, but the other one just happened recently, and it was largely due to a resource-poor world; literally the only resource I had was furs, and only after I culture-flipped an Arabian town (which ended up being traded a couple times between me and the Netherlands).

So ... any China-specific suggestions that might help?

 

[Speedbird 95]

More land area (i.e. standard or larger map size, and pangaea or continents) could improve the relative value of China vs. the other civilizations.

This is because the Chinese rider has more movement points than a knight.

Also China is militaristic, which means: more elite promotions, more great leaders, and more armies.

Armies get an extra movement point - your rider armies will move 4 squares per turn.

You can try setting barbarians to restless or raging, they will help promote your horsemen to elite status and accumulate cash for upgrading them to riders.

You will have to learn how to deal with the barbarian uprising that happens when you enter the middle ages. For that purpose, I build spearmen in the late ancient age to defend my territory. Even at warlord level your elite horsemen can't survive a barbarian horde, but most of your spearmen will.

To get armies you will need to have elite units defeat another civilization's unit (not a barbarian unit). You can declare war against someone - or refuse their demand - and use your horsemen to pick off the warriors, archers & horsemen they send into your territory. Your horsemen will be too valuable (think "future rider") to risk against enemy spearmen or swordsmen, so you will need a few swordsmen yourself.

You should make it a priority to build the heroic epic; it improves the chances of getting a leader. The heroic epic requires a victorious army battle, so your first army will be an army of horses or swords, and all the rest of your armies will be riders, until you get cavalry.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

More land area (i.e. standard or larger map size, and pangaea or continents) could improve the relative value of China vs. the other civilizations.

This is because the Chinese rider has more movement points than a knight.

Also China is militaristic, which means: more elite promotions, more great leaders, and more armies.

Armies get an extra movement point - your rider armies will move 4 squares per turn.

You can try setting barbarians to restless or raging, they will help promote your horsemen to elite status and accumulate cash for upgrading them to riders.

You will have to learn how to deal with the barbarian uprising that happens when you enter the middle ages. For that purpose, I build spearmen in the late ancient age to defend my territory. Even at warlord level your elite horsemen can't survive a barbarian horde, but most of your spearmen will.

To get armies you will need to have elite units defeat another civilization's unit (not a barbarian unit). You can declare war against someone - or refuse their demand - and use your horsemen to pick off the warriors, archers & horsemen they send into your territory. Your horsemen will be too valuable (think "future rider") to risk against enemy spearmen or swordsmen, so you will need a few swordsmen yourself.

You should make it a priority to build the heroic epic; it improves the chances of getting a leader. The heroic epic requires a victorious army battle, so your first army will be an army of horses or swords, and all the rest of your armies will be riders, until you get cavalry.

I could use a larger map again (my most recent loss was on a Standard, and I've never played larger than that), and set the Barbarians higher (I almost always go for Random anyway). But most of the other things are all based on the Rider, and due to lack of resources I could not even build them right away once I had the tech. I never did get Swordsmen because it took so long to get Iron. It wasn't just that they were not available to me, but that I could barely trade for any, even. Same thing with Horses. I literally only had Furs (after flipping an Arabian town I was getting ready to attack in order to get them).

I'm going to do a Tiny map this time, but will set the Barbarians higher & see how it goes (pending other ideas before I get started, which probably will not be until tomorrow afternoon).

 

[CKS]

As Speedbird 95 said, play pangaea with less water. Play many opponents, so resources are more available. If wars start, enlist allies to stir up as much trouble for the AI as you can.

A recent GOTM was China at Warlord (but with an isolated start); you might enjoy looking at those games.

 

[justanick]

Instead of going for many barbarians it may make sense to play a tiny map that is quite crowded with real enemies. Build barracks and then archers to crush your enemies.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Instead of going for many barbarians it may make sense to play a tiny map that is quite crowded with real enemies. Build barracks and then archers to crush your enemies.

Working on this ... went Random for barbarians, as usual. I think I'll go after the Byzantines first, as they're closest.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

Was preparing to go after the Byzantines when Korea DoW unexpectedly. Wiped out about half, then backed off to replenish forces. Ended up with an ROP which helped immensely. But then a little later England DoW for no reason, and after I took a few towns, then the Byzantines got into it against me. I made peace with England, and continued against Byzantines. Took a few towns, made peace, and then the English DoW again. Wiped them out, and as soon as I did Byzantines attacked without a DoW. Wiped them out and got a Domination victory with Korea still having 4 towns left ... at victory time, I had one of their towns under attack, but I had the win and was just waiting one more turn. Turned out well. Only reason it took me into modern times technologically is because I couldn't get the resources for Riders until I had Military Tradition and started pumping out Cavs. I wasn't able to make a single Rider, and so the game ended up being stretched out longer than expected. Still, a satisfying win, if not one of my best.

 

[Theov]

I'll knock this one out of the park: build more workers and focus less on Wonders.
If you're losing on Warlord, there's more to improve other than just maximizing you Civ traits. If you attach a save to your post there are people happy to provide with some tips to improve.

 

[WeirdoJoker]

I'll knock this one out of the park: build more workers and focus less on Wonders.

Yes, I've pretty much learned that one. I now only build Wonders I need for whatever it is I'm doing, and I have found more workers accomplishes quite a lot, especially for an Industrious civ.

If you're losing on Warlord, there's more to improve other than just maximizing you Civ traits. If you attach a save to your post there are people happy to provide with some tips to improve.

I actually haven't lost on Warlord for quite a while, now (relatively speaking - these are all C3C, though I played Vanilla extensively before). Of my 11 losses - all of them early on - one I got conquered rather quickly, and the the others I retired from for one reason or another that they turned into nightmares.

My particular issue here was that I was having trouble winning as China. I had a similar problem, but worse, with Korea, though I'm going to win the Space Race on that one soon. Hopefully I will soon feel confident enough to move up to Regent, maybe with the next game.

But yes, I'll keep in mind I can post saves ... I always forget that, and then I solve the problem somehow & move on.

 

[Theov]

Yes, I've pretty much learned that one. I now only build Wonders I need for whatever it is I'm doing, and I have found more workers accomplishes quite a lot, especially for an Industrious civ.

I actually haven't lost on Warlord for quite a while, now (relatively speaking - these are all C3C, though I played Vanilla extensively before). Of my 11 losses - all of them early on - one I got conquered rather quickly, and the the others I retired from for one reason or another that they turned into nightmares.

My particular issue here was that I was having trouble winning as China. I had a similar problem, but worse, with Korea, though I'm going to win the Space Race on that one soon. Hopefully I will soon feel confident enough to move up to Regent, maybe with the next game.

But yes, I'll keep in mind I can post saves ... I always forget that, and then I solve the problem somehow & move on.

The best way to beat the next step, is to take the next step.
I remember regent being a challenge, until you get the hang of using the tax slider, and the luxury sliders well.
Use the luxury slider to keep people happy, instead of using clowns/entertainers/Elvis. Use the tax slider, that if you are soon to research a tech (4 turns and less) move the tax slider down and still get the tech in the same amount of turns, but running a bit of a (bigger) profit.
Using and getting the Philosophy/Republic slingshot will also greatly give you an advantage over the AI - you will find a civ that starts with Writing to be good for this.
Regent is fun, as the AI has a bit more money (that you can get from them).

 

[WeirdoJoker]

The best way to beat the next step, is to take the next step.
I remember regent being a challenge, until you get the hang of using the tax slider, and the luxury sliders well.
Use the luxury slider to keep people happy, instead of using clowns/entertainers/Elvis. Use the tax slider, that if you are soon to research a tech (4 turns and less) move the tax slider down and still get the tech in the same amount of turns, but running a bit of a (bigger) profit.
Using and getting the Philosophy/Republic slingshot will also greatly give you an advantage over the AI - you will find a civ that starts with Writing to be good for this.
Regent is fun, as the AI has a bit more money (that you can get from them).

I've gotten much, much better than I used to be using the tax slider to get as much as possible while still getting. My last game (I just won Spaceship with Koreans/Warlord/Standard), though, once I hit Modern Times I had trouble having enough gold to research @ 4 turns ... in fact, despite being Commercial/Scientific, I always had trouble with gold, something I never experienced with Greece (also Comm./Sci.) ... contrast my previous game (Mayans/Warlord/Small), in which I had an obscene amount of gold and nothing much to spend it on (rushed a lot of projects on that account, though).

I have only used the luxury slider when necessary, though, because of the expense (apart from my previous game as Mayans, see above) and its effect on research. Of course, if I can get more income from the AI (something that was indeed less of a problem at Warlord, but still an issue), then that will make a substantial difference.

I started using the Republic slingshot every game, as soon as I heard of it, and I then just stay at Republic for the rest of the game. Much fewer problems with war weariness than Democracy, which used to be my go-to government.

I'm thinking I'll start with Iroquois, which is Agri/Comm and starts with Alphabet & Pottery, which should help for growth and a little extra gold. Picking AI opponents, however, is always a bit more challenging...

 

[jarred!]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/spoonwoods-selection-strategies.613846/
This is a thread about selecting opponents to achieve a desired effect, but I think all random is more exciting

 

[WeirdoJoker]

https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/spoonwoods-selection-strategies.613846/
This is a thread about selecting opponents to achieve a desired effect, but I think all random is more exciting

I used to play with random opponents, and may do so again, but not my first game at Regent. I've decided to play Iroquois vs. England, France & India - all Commercial Civs - on a Tiny map. Going to set some of the conditions to easier settings, basically making my first run into a test of Regent-level play.