Suggestions from history buffs.

Nilmerf

Warlord
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Oct 2, 2006
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If you're like me, you think it's kind of silly that every civ in the game is classified as an "empire". I need the advice of some fellow history buffs as to what to rename some of the civilizations.. as I don't have expertise in every single one.

For example: American Republic, Celtic Nations, Viking Kingdom, etc.

Obviously some civs like Rome and France have been either empires, republics, or monarchies over time.. so use discretion and pick the best one.

Thanks!
 

G Julius Caesar

Warlord
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Nov 9, 2005
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I dont understand the original post.

Is it that you want the civ.s to be renamed and are looking for suitable names? But as you point out some civ.s have been known under different types of governments anyway. How would that work?

Civilization as a game isn't about being the American Republic or Viking Monarchy. The whole game concept allows you to play with stereotyped historical peoples/leaders but without being bound by what happened in history. Hence you could play a game where the Vikings ended up as a pacifist bureaucracy. They would not be known as a monarchy in that particular game.

If they did change the civ.s as you appear to want then you could for example, only play as the Viking Monarchy with the Hereditary Rule civic (which I think the tech. monarchy allows). Is this what you mean?
 

blitzkrieg1980

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Yeah, I don't really get the point of the OP. The point of the game is to be the best empire. Whether or not the nation in real history was an Empire or not. When going for domination vic, you are obviously an empire. Conquest, the same. I guess we could just call them "nations" instead of empires.
 

Hellfire

Prince
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Near Philly, PA
The point is that, for example, the US has never been classified as an empire. You can make an argument for imperialistic tendencies, but it's not officially an empire.

Here's the definition from Wiktionary.com:

"A political unit having an extensive territory or comprising a number of territories or nations and ruled by a single supreme authority."

In general, an empire is ruled by a single authority, like the Roman empire. It's ruled by an emperor. If you are currently ruled by a President or Prime Minister, you really aren't an empire.

So calling each civ an empire can be a misnomer. Even if almost every civ was an empire at some point, being able to change that as the game evolves would be a nice thing. I don't think since Civ2 have we had situations where the leader and the civ's title changed. Civ3 had static titles, and Civ4 everyone seems to have the same title for their civ.

Calling it the empire of the Americans is okay if you are in a despotic style government.

For a patch, expansion or Civ5, how about giving the player the ability to change their "empire title." For example, China calls themselves the People's Republic of China, but the only people who think they are a republic are the communist dictators in power.
 

Mango

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Some Civs have never been empires. That is what he is saying. The thing is, in this game all Civs are empires... unless you don't attack anyone. Anytime you are controlling another Civ's city that makes you an empire. I suppose you could go through completely peaceful, but that wouldn't be very much fun.
 

blitzkrieg1980

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^^Once again, we agree, Mango. That was the point of my earlier post. I would never argue that the U.S. is officially classified as an empire. It definitely is. But it's not classified as one. :D
 

Gorman Truart

Chieftain
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In previous civ versions, your government determined the "title" of your nation. For example, if you were communist, you would be "People's Republic of America." If you switched to Monarchy, you would be "Kingdom of America."
 

Xanikk999

History junkie
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blitzkrieg1980 said:
^^Once again, we agree, Mango. That was the point of my earlier post. I would never argue that the U.S. is officially classified as an empire. It definitely is. But it's not classified as one. :D

Well if the U.S is an empire then every NATO country is also.
 

Snakehead

Chieftain
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Aug 22, 2006
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Xanikk999 said:
Well if the U.S is an empire then every NATO country is also.

In terms of game mechanics, I think you could make a case for the U.S. technically being an empire - it has expanded its influence as the number of states has increased. Hawaii and Alaska as culture flips!

Presumably they have a defensive pact with a European power block (although it's unclear which Civ that originally evolved from)

The "historically accurate" form of government for each civilisation is somewhat accomodated with the preferred civics.
 

Mango

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Xanikk999 said:
Well if the U.S is an empire then every NATO country is also.

The US has controlled several territories in the past, and currently has quasi-imperialistic territories. It's usually just strategic military bases and small islands though, but we've occupied several nations temporarily.

Right now the US controls or is the protectorate of American Samoa, Baker Island, Guam, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Palmyra Atoll, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, and Wake Island (per CIA Factbook).

edit: That's not even including current states which were once part of other countries. We took Florida, California, Texas and the Illinois territory forcefully. We bought the Louisianna territory from France (before that Thomas Jefferson was considering taking it forcefully from Spain) and Alaska from Russia. We "culturally flipped" Hawaii (I don't remember how we got that actually) and bartered with Britain over the Oregon border (includes Washington state). The current US is the result of sustained military expansion. Most people don't realize that though because a large portion of the expansion was against weakly established European controlled colonies and Native American settlements.
 

Xanikk999

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Mango said:
The US has controlled several territories in the past, and currently has quasi-imperialistic territories. It's usually just strategic military bases and small islands though, but we've occupied several nations temporarily.

Right now the US controls or is the protectorate of American Samoa, Baker Island, Guam, Howland Island, Jarvis Island, Johnston Atoll, Kingman Reef, Midway Islands, Navassa Island, Northern Mariana Islands, Palmyra Atoll, Puerto Rico, Virgin Islands, and Wake Island (per CIA Factbook).

edit: That's not even including current states which were once part of other countries. We took Florida, California, Texas and the Illinois territory forcefully. We bought the Louisianna territory from France (before that Thomas Jefferson was considering taking it forcefully from Spain) and Alaska from Russia. We "culturally flipped" Hawaii (I don't remember how we got that actually) and bartered with Britain over the Oregon border (includes Washington state). The current US is the result of sustained military expansion. Most people don't realize that though because a large portion of the expansion was against weakly established European controlled colonies and Native American settlements.

Im not going to go into a political discusion but most of those terrorories you listed are very small islands with little or no permenent residents and are military bases (except puerto rico and some others but they want to become a state anyway).
 

Xanikk999

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And if that makes us an empire it makes nearly EVERY european country one also because they control tons of little islands.

Great britain controls bermuda and france controls new caladonia but NOOOO nobody would dare call them an empire in this day and age. :lol:
 

Mango

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They've controlled India, the American colonies, Australia, etc.

America has had stakes in Germany, Japan, Cuba, Korea and depending on how you look at it, Iraq.

The point was America has been imperialistic in the past and they still maintain some of that today.
 

blitzkrieg1980

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Xanikk999 said:
And if that makes us an empire it makes nearly EVERY european country one also because they control tons of little islands.

Great britain controls bermuda and france controls new caladonia but NOOOO nobody would dare call them an empire in this day and age. :lol:
I see you are a product of conservative southern public schools. The definition of Empire does not end with mere military takeovers. (Oh and Bermuda? Caladonia? Wtf kind of empire would that make for?) The Spanish-American war sparked American imperialism (which is how it is presented in every college textbook I've had to read) and it continued until the return to "Normalcy" after WWI. That taught America a hard learned lesson as the Great Depression crept in due to this "Normalcy". This lasted until WWII. From then on in, it's been a free for all with America heading such great empirical style maneuvers as the Korean War (for which we had no business being in, we were trying to spread our sphere of influence in Asia to compete with the Soviets), the Vietnam War (for which we had no business being in, we were trying to spread our sphere of influence in Asia to compete with the Soviets), and once we realized we weren't as bad ass as we thought, we decided that supporting military coups (black ops style) was the way to go. Let's not forget the mess John F. Kennedy made in almost starting a nuclear holocaust with his little Bay of Pigs Invasion. Overthrowing democratically elected governments in Panama, Ecuador, Columbia, and arming Osama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein to the teeth all contributed to the new methods in which empires are formed. It isn't possible for a country that claims to be the master of freedom to have a classical style of empire. New methods were derived. Instead of arguing over things you just might be ignorant about, try reading a book.

Start with "Hegemony or Survival" - Noam Chomsky.
 

Xanikk999

History junkie
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blitzkrieg1980 said:
I see you are a product of conservative southern public schools. The definition of Empire does not end with mere military takeovers. (Oh and Bermuda? Caladonia? Wtf kind of empire would that make for?) The Spanish-American war sparked American imperialism (which is how it is presented in every college textbook I've had to read) and it continued until the return to "Normalcy" after WWI. That taught America a hard learned lesson as the Great Depression crept in due to this "Normalcy". This lasted until WWII. From then on in, it's been a free for all with America heading such great empirical style maneuvers as the Korean War (for which we had no business being in, we were trying to spread our sphere of influence in Asia to compete with the Soviets), the Vietnam War (for which we had no business being in, we were trying to spread our sphere of influence in Asia to compete with the Soviets), and once we realized we weren't as bad ass as we thought, we decided that supporting military coups (black ops style) was the way to go. Let's not forget the mess John F. Kennedy made in almost starting a nuclear holocaust with his little Bay of Pigs Invasion. Overthrowing democratically elected governments in Panama, Ecuador, Columbia, and arming Osama bin Laden and Sadam Hussein to the teeth all contributed to the new methods in which empires are formed. It isn't possible for a country that claims to be the master of freedom to have a classical style of empire. New methods were derived. Instead of arguing over things you just might be ignorant about, try reading a book.

Start with "Hegemony or Survival" - Noam Chomsky.

Uhh southern??? THATS AN INSULT! I live next to washington DC a couple miles from the north!

AND I AM NOT CONSERVATIVE!!!!!!!!!1 :mad:
 
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