SUL3: Sullla's Training Day Game

[Sullla]

This will be the thread for my game in ChrTh's training day idea. The roster for the game includes:

Sulla (me)
Architect
Erik Mesoy
Imhotep

This is a closed succession game. Anyone out there is welcome to post comments and suggestions or download the game to take a look at it, but only the four of us will be playing the game, and really only the other three after the second rotation.

Here are the standard rules for succession games I am enforcing:
1) No automation of workers. If the tean agrees, they can be automated for pollution cleanup in the late game to avoid insanity.

2) No using the "queue" feature. Does anyone understand this anyway? (If you accidently do use it, shift + right click will remove an item from the queue.)

3) No long gotos. Nothing is worse than getting a SG and having workers running all over the place with no idea where they're going. Don't do it!

4) No downloading the game by players and playing ahead to "see" what happens. No retiring either to see the map. Should be fairly obvious.

To start the game, I will take 20 turns. We're going to have a random civ on a pretty random map, so anything goes here. Then I will post a report on what happened along with the game save so that Architect can play. Each of you will be taking 10 turns each, FOREVER. This allows much more discussion than the 20 turn format. I will play 10 turns in the second rotation, then that is it. However, I will continue to be the "coach" so to speak for this group. Sulla's not going to disappear, trust me! And I will be watching for the weed

Now the not-so cool part. I'm going to try to start the game tomorrow. I am ALMOST done Game of the Month #6 and thus have held off on patching with 1.21f so far. I truly hope to get this started by Wednesdy evening, but it may be Thursday before I can start the game. For this I apologize to the rest of the team - but I am going to finish my GOTM game because I've got an awesome score on it (it will be 7000+ )

In other words: check back tomorrow.

 

[ChrTh]

Something I wanted to clarify for the training games:

"I get the impression that ChrTh's idea is to let the rookies muddle their way through without a lot of up-front advice (so the vet doesn't dominate the decision making process) and then simply provide constructive feedback on what choices were made. So, I'm not going to post my own dotmap once we start the game -- I'll let you guys take care of that yourselves. "

Well, I expect some guidance at the end of your turn; for example what we need to concentrate on, where we should be building towards. The one thing I want to avoid is mid-turn discussion; I'd rather let the Rookie make a mistake on turn 4 when he gets a GL (rushes the Colossus instead of forming an army, for example) or suddenly gets a demand from Catherine for some gold. I do want extensive discussion both pre-turn and post-turn. My fear is only that the rookies will get paralyzed in their turn if they keep looking for help (making the game run forever).

 

[Sullla]

Here's the start to our SG:

(0) 4000BC We are the Russians! First tip: if you are an expansionist civ, ALWAYS move the scout first to get a look at the neighboring lands and see if there is a better spot for the capital. That not being the case here, I opt to found the city on the starting spot. Three bonus grasslands is an excellent start, though it doesn't look like there are any bonus resources nearby. Since we are expansionist, I opt to build a scout first to help explore instead of a warrior (both 10 shields). I set research to 80%, which gives +1 gold and set the research queue to Ceremonial Burial (for temples) since we don't know much about the possible neighbors. I move the worker to mine the bonus grassland tile and check everything again to make sure it is the way I want it. After all that, I hit spacebar.



(2) 3900BC Dyes spotted to the west of Moscow. Unfortunately they're located in a lot of jungle. Looks like we've got a wet world here - lots of jungle to cut down. I think to check F11 this turn: our opponents will be the French, Japanese, Indians, Babylonians, Chinese, and one other random opponent.

(5) 3750BC Moscow builds another scout. I set the queue for a warrior, for military police and defense against possible barbarians.

(6) 3700BC We get Warrior Code from a goody hut The scouts sight more dyes in the east and south. Flood plains with a wheat square also found in south. That is a very high priority city sight; that place will be able to pop settlers/workers like crazy.

(7) 3650BC Worker finishes mine, starts road.

(8) 3600BC Awesome luck! A settler from a goody hut decides to join us! First one I've ever gotten from a hut.



(9) 3550BC Moscow finishes Warrior, who begins scouting in another direction.

(10) 3500BC Moscow's borders expand because of culture. I set it to build another warrior after some consideration. Here's the logic: it will take 10 turns to grow at this point to size 3. I want a settler to be ready on that turn, but it only takes 7 turns to build a settler. Therefore, I want to build something that takes fewer than 3 turns. I figure that 2 scouts and a warrior are enough explorers, so another warrior gets the nod over another scout. St. Petersburg is founded in a location that gives 1) no overlap with the capital, 2) a river site, 3) easy access to dyes, and 4) access to a floodplains wheat after a temple is built there. It starts a warrior with the understanding that that will probably be changed.

(12) 3400BC Moscow completes Warrior and starts settler (8 turns to grow, 8 turns to build. Nice!)

(13) 3350BC We finish Ceremonial Burial and begin research on the Wheel. I chose it because it would be nice to know where horses are early on, and because I expect to get utility techs like Alphabet from goody huts.

(14) 3300BC A goody hut gives us Mysticism. That's 2 techs already and a settler; the expansionist trait is really helping us (remember, expansionist civs cannot get barbarians from a hut). The downside is that this non-religious civ causes the temple in St. Petersburg to take 60 turns instead of 30 We spot a pink border to the south! Must be the French. Scouts are moving down there...

(15) 3250BC I should mention there are gems to the east in some mountains. Another future project.

(16) 3200BC We get Masonry from a goody hut A scout reveals silks to the SE. Very nice; three luxuries within a small distance from our capital. And now I notice ivory too, very close to St. Petersburg! FOUR luxuries nearby - that's half of them all within 30 spaces of Moscow! This is one sweet starting spot.

(17) 3150BC Joanie offers us this "deal":



I decline, fully expecting to get Alphabet in the next goody hut.

(19) 3050BC Guess what? There are furs east of the French Moscow will build a settler and St. Petersburg a warrior next turn.

(20) 3000BC I have set Moscow to build barracks and St. Petersburg to build a spearman for defense. I intend for Moscow to grow at this point and be the primary military supplier for the other cities, which should produce settlers for the next couple of turns. Sooner or later the French WILL attack, so be careful.

THE GAME: SUL3 3000BC

 

[Sullla]

Dot Map time:



Commentary:

The map is a bit sloppy, with a good deal of overlap and (worse) several tiles left unused, but I was trying to take advantage of rivers and resources as much as possible. Everywhere possible I favored closeness to the capitol over overlap, as that won't come into play until after Hospitals are built and that's a LOOONG way away. The gray squares are the overlapped tiles.

Green dot is top priority; it has a river site, access to a bouns grassland, and a good mix of grassland and hills/mountains. That will be a powerhouse shield city in the future. I had the current settler just produced heading to green dot.

Light and dark blue are next at about equal prioriry; two river sites with good overal potential but nothing exceptional to either.

Purple dot is next highest, as it will be our only coastal city for a while, and the fish will allow it to grow despite the large amount of plains/desert.

Yellow is another good future site, but too much jungle to be of use for a while. The reddish dot is a future project of very low priority; the cattle is the only useful thing in its radius.

I'm leaving the area south of the immiedate capitol radius up to you to decide the city sites. I fully expect cities to be planted there before the low priority sites like red dot get settled; for example the mouth of that river east of green dot is another excellent city location. Also try to get the dyes online ASAP, and make a serious effort to get the gems (in mountains to the east) silks (one silk, in the southeast) and ivory (south of St. Petersburg) before the French get them. The AI is going to beeline for that ivory, so it might be a good idea to send a settler to claim them soon.

Sulla
Architect <<< UP NOW
Erik Mesoy <<< on deck
Imhotep

You will each be taking 10 turns, no more even though it will be very short at first. I will continue to evaluate actions even though I only have one more turn. Good luck: your training day begins now!

 

[Ihmotep]

I'm assuming that the turn order is that of which you posted on the first post of this thread?

 

[ChrTh]

Sullla,

I have a question about the dot-map. Why isn't the light blue dot one diagonal to the left/up? In that case you'd have only one shared spot, and an extra dye in your radius....

ah, never mind: river. I get it

 

[ChrTh]

Originally posted by Ihmotep
I'm assuming that the turn order is that of which you posted on the first post of this thread?

Yeah, it was determined randomly (so you're not being dissed )

 

[Ihmotep]

I wanted to be last, actually

 

[Architect]

Got It.

I will try and play late tonight (12:00 CST) or I may not be able to until tomorrow evening as I have a Mavericks NBA Playoff game to attend..

 

[Ihmotep]

lucky bastard...I want a playoff game :-(

 

[Architect]

Dumb Question: Does the turn I inherit the kingdom count as one of my ten or do I really click next turn 11 times?

 

[LKendter]

Originally posted by Architect
Dumb Question: Does the turn I inherit the kingdom count as one of my ten or do I really click next turn 11 times?

No - you click next turn as follows
sent game - click
turn 1- click
.. .- click
turn 9 - click
turn 10 - DON'T click EoT

You actually click EoT 10 times, passing it to the next player to hit EoT

 

[ChrTh]

You know, I just realized that I didn't know that either...thanks Lee!

(see, this is the point of the Training Day games! )

 

[Sullla]

Yes; notice how the first turn 4000BC was turn 0: it was the inherited turn. The turn you get the game is always the "0th" turn and does not count towards your 10 (or however many you may be playing). Also note that you ALWAYS need to have "wait at end of turn" checked in the preferences menu when playing succession games.

I'm really not proud of that dot map, since it overlaps quite a bit and even misses 5 tiles near the capital. However, optimising the dot map would put cities off of rivers and deep in jungles, so this was pretty good in my opinion. Light blue is a good example; moving it just one square away would completely eliminate overlap, but it would move it off the river and give it only two grassland tiles. Regardless, I know that Sirian could have done a better job though

 

[Sullla]

Zed posted this in his game, and it's such a good summary for early game strategy I though I'd repost it here as well.

********************

Above all, we want RAPID GROWTH in our cities.
- Rapid growth = more settlers = more cities = more production, cash, research, and free support units under Despotism.
- Rapid growth also = bigger cities = more production, cash and research, and easier to defend cities.
- Rapid growth also = more workers = more production, cash, research, more growth, and more resources connected to our road network.

NEVER limit growth to get more shields, unless it's just for a turn or two, at least at this stage of the game.

If you are having problems keeping cities happy due to size, you have a couple options:
- build a worker or settler!
- connect/trade for more lux resources
- raise the lux tax -- the extra production & cash out of a bigger city almost invariably pays for the extra lux tax, especially once we get out of Despotism. This is especially effective if you only need it on a temporary basis while taking one of the other actions on this list; however, even a semi-permanent lux tax is a worthwhile option, and usually pays for itself.
- Building an improvement that generates more happiness (temple, market, cathedral) or a wonder that does the same
- More MP, if allowed by your government.
- Your LAST option should be making entertainers. Only do this if you only need one or two throughout the entire empire, and never in a wonder city. Raise the lux tax instead if it's more than that.

************************

That's some good stuff there. Architect is up when he gets back from the Mavs game.

 

[Architect]

3000BC - I remember well the night that Sulla the Great gasped his last breath. The moist air of the jungle lay heavy upon our tiny russian tribe like the saddness in our hearts. As he had never produced any offspring (it was said his many wives were all barren), the tribal council elected me, Architect I, as the great new ruler of Russia. As I looked over our fallen leaders final plans I felt they were wise and hoped I too could guide and lead the russian people as he did. So I clicked next turn...

2950BC - Continued with plan as normal. I order our worker to start the road to St. Petersburg and elect not to build it over the hill. I send our scouting warrior north as we have no units exloring that great expanse of land. Our other scouts continue exploring the lay of the land around our French neighbors

2900BC - Our science advisor says we should increase funding. Seeing as I have never heard such a statement from him I investigate this and it turns out for 90% of our revenue we can gain one turn on this silly round device I have heard so much about called the Wheel. I make it so. We begin construction of the road to St. Petersburg. Our scouts find nothing of note. The french still want quite a bit for their "Alphabet", so I make no trades with them.

2850BC - Times are great in Mother Russia. We are two turns away from founding our third city. I feels good to know that I will be able to help fulfil Sulla's great vision of the blue dot land. 3 turns to the wheel, scouts find nothing again.

2800BC - Our scouts notice for the first time that the French have founded a new city called Orleans. Such a strange feminine language these French speak...Much is the same in Russia.

2750BC - We are very close to the wheel, I was able to boost taxes and gain the tech still in one turn. I enjoy micromanaging my subjects. The first leg of the St. Petersburg road is complete. We found Kiev and elect to build a warrior for defense. Scouts find nothing of note.

2710BC - My science advisors show me the wonders of the device called the Wheel. At the same time, for some unknown reason, we have reports of four legged beasts called "Horses", that we
could learn to ride. I tell my science advisor to learn how to harness these Horses for war! He informs me for 70% of our revenue we can discover this technology in 15 turns and still
make 3 gold per turn. I think this is the best as a little money to bargin with Joan might get us the alphabet as no rumored tribes that know the secret of the alphabet have been seen in awhile. There are three herds of horses visible on the map, one near the pink dot, one around the spice resource and one below the french. We will have to adjust our pink dot to be closer to the cattle to get the horses in a base city radius. We would be ok after a cultural expansion. Our scouting warrior too the north discovers the tribe called the Babylonians. Hammurabi is annoyed with us, the insolent fool. He is technologically backwards at this time and only has 10 gold so I choose to keep him that way.

2670BC - Our scouts discover an cache of incense resources to the east. Nothing else new to report. In three turns St. Petersburg will complete its spearman. In 7 we complete the
barracks of Moscow.

2630BC - Our scouts find the capital city Babylon, with a nearby wine resource. My seers suspect we are on a large continent with at least 5(!) other civilizations (including the French
and Babylonians) due to the varied nature of the luxury resources found. So far these long lost civilizations have not made themselves visible.

2590BC - One more link of the St. Petersburg roadway is complete. I am beginning to age. Nothing much else to report. Our warrior investigating the Babylonian land is forcefully
evicted. Insolent Bastard!

2550BC - The eviction has shown us a hidden tribe. I will not be able to see what this tribe can provide for mother Russia as I am very weak and fear I will die soon. Our spearman has
been built in St. Petersburg and I order the construction of a granary, but I am unsure this is the real longterm vision for this city. I do adjust the citizens so that it will grown in 5 turns to size three. Moscow will complete its barracks in two turns and I feel my rule is at end.


-----
Its funny how you mention that about growth. When I got St. Petersburg it was only growing one food at a time. I decided to keep it this way to get the spearman built sooner. Oh well...

The next ruler will have some interesting decisions to make... I think we should build a settler in St. Petersburg and build the city nearest the horses so we are ready with horseman. I would also think securing the spice resource is important for our long-term happiness.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Cool, RUSSIA! Cossacks are stupid, but hey, who cares?
I will play now.

 

[Sullla]

Architect: you attached the wrong file - you posted my 3000BC save game again! Make sure you attach the 2550BC save instead.

St. Petersburg should probably build a settler unit next IMO, as right now the French are not likely to attack (they have a low aggression level as a civ) and it can grow quickly enough without a granary. Careful management of the city's tiles will get a settler out faster; for example, keep switching between flood plain and forest to get the settler out faster while still growing. I would explain more fully, but I can't look at the save game at the moment since it's not posted.

We also are going to need some more workers, and SOON. My intention is for Moscow to produce vet troops, mostly spearmen for the other cities, but we need workers to link the cities and improve tiles badly. I would tentatively suggest a worker in the new city; the new city definitely should NOT produce a regular military unit, because regulars are just a waste to build. The ones I built were for military police and barbarian defense, not military.

The most important thing at this point in the game is to keep expanding. That is the one thing that new players tend to neglect the most.

 

[Architect]

Duh... I modified my original post with the correct save.

I guess that's what happens when you play at 1:00am after a great playoff win!

Good point about Micromanaging the tiles for food then shields.

 

[Ihmotep]

I just want to let you guys know that I AM indeed here..I just am observing at this point...I'll comment when I have a question or something to say