Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AutomatedTeller, Mar 13, 2011.
actually better is a jaguar with unrestricted leaders jag + boadicua
I'd almost agree with you except they can't get the Woodsman III promotion, but you're if you can live with a less-than-perfect Medic, Explorers are cheap and functional.
I've never actually gotten Woodsman III, usually only have enough EXP for Medic III
Its a little risky with the jags but its a little fun also and remember that its only is needet 10 xp to uppgrade the jags to woodsman III and medic I with the medic level of 25 making it better then a medic II unit.
While your example still stands without a Great General being attached to your Ironclad, it seems kind of silly to have a Great General Ironclad in the age of Destroyers... why not upgrade the Ironclad? Upgrading a Great General has 0 Gold cost and loses 0 of your accumulated Experience Points.
An extension of the above reasoning against using a Chariot is if your Super Medic Chariot is defending a stack of Axemen... an attacking Chariot gets a big bonus against the Axeman so your Chariot Medic will become the defender at not-extremely-favourable odds (and very easily at losing odds). Shame on you for not having Spearmen, but the thinking that a Chariot will not defend frequently is a dangerous thought to rely upon. So, yes, if you aren't using Jaguars with their easy access to Woodsman III + Medic III, then I support the idea of making a Scout your Super Medic unit, as you're not likely to get a Woodsman III + Medic III unit anyway, so just be happy with your Medic III fast-moving and low-Hammer-investment unit.
The other advantage of using a Scout is that you won't be tempted to use it in "clean-up" battles. Sure, you'll be fine winning in most games, but the odds aren't 100%, so sooner or later, probably in a game where you really needed that Super Medic, you'll lose your Super Medic and will regret making the attack. With a Scout, you can't attack, so you will thus remove this dangerous temptation.
Dhoom - That's actually not correct about the chariot. The chariots bonus on Axeman is only on the "attack". It has no defensive bonus or advantage on axeman and an axeman will frequently kill a chariot when attacking the chariot, unless that chariot has strength/shock bonuses. In fact, chariots have no defensive bonuses at all. I frequently use chariots as medics and never have any issues with that medic defending when kept in a stack. Plus, I keep it as a chariot or only upgrade it to a higher level only right before getting the next tier of mounted. So I might upgrade it to a Knight right before MT comes in when my stack will be all Curs.
Not saying the scout is not a good choice though. I have started to use them more now, but it is nice to have the attack option in crucial moments with the medic - at very high odds of course.
^too bad W3 isn't available to recon units.
I'm not too sure on the flanking figures, at what HP do they retreat? W3 might actually make a difference when using flaking units.
Yes, that's correct. On the flipside though, if you just have a stack with axes and a medic chariot, and you get attacked by enemy chariots, your medic may be selected to defend (because your axes would get a penalty on defense versus chariots.) Anyway, maybe that's what Dhoom had in mind? Not a big deal either way, but just one more reason if you're axe rushing to make sure and throw a spear or two into the mix.
That's what I meant because it's something that I foolishly did... I had several Axeman who were being healed by my Super Medic Chariot... and when an AI Chariot attacked, my Super Medic defended and died. Shame on me for not better-supporting my Axemen, but I immediately began to rethink the whole "use a Chariot" idea.
Besides, as lymond was suggesting, Chariots are strong on attack (both because they get a withdrawl chance and because they get the bonus versus Axemen that way), so I'd probably rather have 1 more Chariot that I'm willing to throw into battle... i.e. a Chariot that is not my Super Medic, since I will rarely risk attacking with my Super Medic unit and thus I am "wasting" a Chariot.
Justify it however you want, but only if your stack is going to be eliminated will you lose your Scout... but, in that case, you probably would have lost your Super Medic "whatever" (insert Chariot, Axeman, Jaguar, whatever here), regardless. However, in a more "normal case" where most of your stack is wounded and you may lose a couple of wounded units but not the entire stack, a Scout Super Medic will still be alive to save the day... your remaining units stand a strong chance of surviving since they will heal quickly... but if you lose your Super Medic and the rest of your stack is wounded, then you might as well kiss the entire stack goodbye.
Summary: If you're going to lose your entire stack, it won't matter how strong your Super Medic is. If you aren't going to lose your entire stack but will lose several units, your best chance of keeping at least some of the stack is if the Super Medic does not come up as a defender... enter the Scout Super Medic.
That's all very true. I guess the other reason I use a chariot rather than a scout is by the time I get a GG I'll generally have a Medic I chariot anyway, so it seems natural. But this thread will certainly make me think more about using a scout.
Ah....looks like a misread that, Dhoom. That does make sense. I would have spear support at that point if using max Axe stacks. However, if I have chariots in the first place early I might be using large stacks of them in which case I'm promoting stronger chariots to supercede the weaker medic chariot. The chariot really starts to shine once though once you bring cats into the equations or even swords.
Still, I agree that you can't ever go wrong with the a scout medic.
I sometimes try to get the Woody Medic, but it's really hard to do unless you have Jags or Char. Ha... one time I got a woody medic and made the huge mistake of upgrading him to a spear. Will not do that again
scout = best medic 3
Medic 3 sure. Super medic (w/ Wood III) is tough though.
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