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Superheroes!

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by EgonSpengler, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    I hadn't been aware previously that Marvel put short films in the Marvel Cinematic Universe series on some of their home disks for the movies. I frequently don't watch the special features.
     
  2. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I haven't seen any of those shorts. I think Ben Kingsley did one that people said was pretty good. Hayley Atwell might have done one, too.
     
  3. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    I took the disks for 3 of them out of the library. Interesting, but not enough substance to them to really be bothered with.
     
  4. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    And part 2:


    Link to video.

    I think Daredevil's mask looks better than it did at the end of season 1. There was something about the brow of that mask that didn't look right to me. Of course it's hard to see anything clearly in this trailer. She mostly has an English accent (went to school in London, according to Wikipedia), but it sounds like Yung may have a little Aussie too, the way she says "no" a little nasally. It looked like we saw Frank Castle briefly in this trailer, so I wonder if those stories will overlap or intersect. A climactic Daredevil-Punisher-Elektra vs. The Hand megafight, perhaps? Or maybe Castle takes some of the role of Bullseye from the comics?
     
  5. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Ex-Supergirl Laura Vandervoort as supervillain Indigo gives the series all three live-action Supergirls (Helen Slater plays Mrs. Danvers, Kara's foster mother). I think she looks pretty good. I'm not quite ready to say that Supergirl is a show I'd recommend to non- or casual nerds - it needs to get further away from being a "female Superman" and let her write her own mythology - but I like a lot of what it's doing.

    Spoiler :


     
  6. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I like it too, and even disagree about the "female superman" part. I think the whole "part of the DSO team" thing is so far removed from Superman and his fortress of solitude that it carries the show completely off that course.

    So...here's an opinion I'm wondering will get any agreement.

    During my comic book fan days decades, I strongly favored Marvel Comics over DC. I had a couple that I followed on the DC side, but they were drops in the ocean. This may bias my view.

    While DC got into the movies first, I never thought that they did it very well, and mostly I still don't. The rehashings of Superman and Batman on the big screen are certainly better than the earlier go rounds (a very low bar), but are still, I think, outmatched by Marvel (Electra aside).

    But DC has found their venue on TV. Arrow, Flash, and Supergirl I think are all very strong, while I follow Agents of SHIELD just so I don't miss some tie in with the films, for the most part. Is this the start of some sort of rebound by DC?
     
  7. CivCube

    CivCube Feelin' defiant.

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    Less DC, more the CW and Greg Berlanti's people bringing back Buffy-type shows with a DC skin.
     
  8. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Supergirl's 'secret' identity is a socially-inept clutz with glasses who works for a news media outlet. James Olson. A female General Zod (recently replaced by a male General Zod). A Perry White. A Lex Luthor. A Bizarro. Indigo is a Brainiac, but I'll see what they do with her before I render an opinion. She looks cool, anyway.

    They've started getting away from her being Superman-with-a-skirt and establishing Supergirl/Kara as her own woman, and I hope they continue. Alex is pretty cool, so far (and I admit to having a little [affection] for Chyler Leigh). They've taken advantage of the fact that Kara remembers Krypton clearly and doesn't feel entirely at home on Earth, which is a big difference from Superman.

    I've always thought the "Marvel vs DC" thing was silly, unless you work for one of them. I always read books from both. Anyway, I definitely agree with you that the DC shows are kicking butt. The John Constantine show didn't work, I didn't like Gotham, and Legends of Tomorrow hasn't grabbed me, but Arrow, The Flash, and Supergirl are all good. You can also add iZombie, which was a Vertigo book unconnected to the regular DC superhero continuity. I also like Agents of SHIELD and Agent Carter.

    On the whole, I wouldn't agree. I think there are some structural similarities between The Flash and Buffy - a central, super-powered character surrounded by an older mentor and a group of friends; together they fight super-powered enemies spawned by a mysterious MacGuffin. The characters in The Flash are older, though, and the stories aren't analogies for adolescence and the tribulations of being a teenager. Arrow shares some of Buffy's atmospherics - it's night all the time; some of the characters struggle with their own violence (Thea Queen = Faith? not exactly, but a little bit). If I wanted to put Supergirl next to one of her televisual foremothers, it would probably be The Mary Tyler Moore Show.
     
  9. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    I've tried Supergirl and Flash, and just can't get into them. I watch Arrow, but don't think it's really all that good. I like Agents of Shield and Agent Carter better.
     
  10. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    I have to admit, you laid down the hammer there with the circumstantial similarities. But I think the fact that you could surprise me with that is a testament to how much different the characters themselves are. To the best of my recollection there is literally no one except the Kents who raised him that EVER knows who Superman is, and other than the tired cliche of Kryptonite there is never a hint of vulnerability to him. A team? What for? I always thought that he made Justice League comics pretty much a joke.

    Supergirl uses all sorts of help, be it her computer nerd friends or her team of alien busters with weapons that make it perfectly clear that she has to watch her step because even earthbound Kryptonians can die.

    BTW...it wasn't so much a "one vs the other" thing as just an observed phenomenon. There were a few DC titles I picked up sometimes, and some I even would binge on as a regular for a few issues in a row (I was a big fan of Green Lantern, speaking of truly horrific movie adaptations). But there were a bunch Marvel titles that I literally never missed for several years on end. So, eventually, when I confronted my mountain of comic books it was at least three quarters Marvel, maybe more like nine out of ten.
     
  11. CivCube

    CivCube Feelin' defiant.

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    Interesting. Would you say Supergirl is like Mary Tyler Moore in characterization, show format, both...?
     
  12. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    When he said it I did see the resemblance in the characters. Mary Tyler Moore's newsroom is a lot Kira's Katco headquarters. The gruff boss with a heart of gold, interestingly both named Grant. The techie guy mooning over her is a lot like the techie guy from MTM, though in those days mooning over her was a much more subdued thing. Mary/Kira as the glue that humbly holds it all together and gets no credit for it. Of course, it is a newsroom, so the setting is obviously a parallel in itself.
     
  13. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    I love Agent Carter. This season seems funnier than I remember the first being, and Whitney Frost is a great villain, and I still love Dottie. Her small bit in this week's 2nd episode, during the song & dance scene, made me laugh out loud. The fact that they're doing these episodes two a week may be a bad sign. Usually that's a signal that the network is dumping the show. I won't hold my breath for a 3rd season. I think the ratings are pretty dismal. Of course, if television always went with what I like, things would look pretty different. :lol:

    Yes, James Olson is nothing like Jimmy Olson, and not just because he's black. I like Mehcad Brooks and I like the character. They should have just given him a different name and then he'd be entirely Supergirl's character. His prior relationship with Superman hasn't lent so much that they couldn't have James challenging Kara the way he does without it. He could be a war correspondent or something.

    Superman's vulnerability is in his relationships with other, regular people. There's no Lois Lane in Supergirl, but to some degree, James and Alex are both Lois, as the regular people who go looking for trouble, get in over their heads, and need to be rescued. Neither is the love interest, though. I suppose they could be setting up James for that role, but if that's what they're trying to do, I'm not smelling what they're cooking.

    Kara also doesn't have the same issues with her multiple identities that Clark does. For Superman, Clark Kent is who he really is and Superman is a facade (which is why he doesn't want Lois to be in love with Superman, which is why he doesn't want her to know his secret identity), and he doesn't remember being Kal El at all. Kara doesn't have the same problems, because everyone she cares about knows that she's Supergirl and an alien, and because she grew up on Krypton and remembers it. Unlike Clark, Kara has always felt like an alien, so being Supergirl isn't any weirder to her than being Kara Danvers is. It's what makes Kara's relationship with Astra more interesting than Superman's rivalry with Zod, imho.

    I think Tim covered it. Of course that comparison only covers the workplace half of the show, since The Mary Tyler Moore Show wasn't an action show.
     
  14. Buster's Uncle

    Buster's Uncle AC2 Co-Owner

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    Nerdz having a strong preference for DC or Marvel, like they were political parties or something, is definitely a thing - one that I never really understood despite leaning DC, but noticed forever ago.
     
  15. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

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    Yeah, that's been a thing for as long as I can remember. Never made any sense to me, but whatever blows your skirt up, I guess. I read title from both publishers, and more. I don't know what the state of the business is today, but back in the day there were a ton of independent publishers too. Capital Comics, Comico, and First Comics all published titles I read. I'm sure I'm forgetting others.

    Spoiler :
     
  16. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Having a strong preference based on who the publisher is seems silly, but I don't really think I ever met anyone like that. There was definitely a difference in style between the two, at least when I was an avid reader, so I think it would be natural for people to have a demonstrable preference. I didn't pick titles because they were published by Marvel, I demonstrably bought more Marvel Comics because I liked more of their titles.

    I think the biggest difference in style was that DC seemed to produce far too many heroes that were just overpowered, obviously led by Superman. No way I could identify with that guy, and way too easy to get that "Oh come on, Superman should have ended this on page two," feeling. So they throw in the gimmick weakness and have to fall back to it practically every time, which is another access to that "Oh, come on..." feeling. I mean, how often does some random goofball have to find a chunk of Kryptonite before the superfast guy with the X-ray vision figures out "hey, take a couple days and round up all the Kryptonite"?

    Marvel, in most of their titles, had heroes that were obviously powerful, but not just absurd, so they always seemed to be at risk. Heck, Spiderman could get shot just intervening in some random street crime, so his serious enemies didn't need some lame gimmick to present a problem. And that seemed to be common throughout the "Marvel Universe."
     
  17. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    Agent Carter isn't actually a series. It's a miniseries. It just happened to have gotten a second miniseries. The point of it wasn't to have a stand alone series so much as filler while Agents of Shield was on hiatus.



    I watch Gotham, and think it's fairly good. But I was thinking about it, and there's kind of a built in time limit to the show. The problem with a show with kid lead actors is that as the years go by, you have to deal with how the kids grow up. Or don't. David Mazouz, who plays Bruce Wayne, is I think 15 years old. And he's done a good enough job so far. But he's below average height, and there's a chance he won't get a lot taller. Now Batman doesn't have to be especially tall. But he does have to be strong and athletic. And this kid is skinny. So as he trains to be Batman, in order to look the part, the actor really needs to beef up. Camren Bicondova, who plays Selena Kyle, is little more than 5 foot nothing. And at nearly 17 years old, she'll never be any taller. Now, again, I think she's done a fine job. But does an adult Catwoman 5 feet tall really work?
     
  18. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Do they have to grow up? Years can go by for the viewers, but there can be many seasons of Gotham that are all in "one year of Bruce Wayne's childhood" during that time. Both the kid actors, as you point out, aren't likely to get too adult like for the roles.
     
  19. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    But kid actors stop looking like kid actors.
     
  20. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Deity

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    Adults playing teenagers is a time honored tradition. As long as Bruce Wayne doesn't grow a beard he'll still be a kid.
     

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