Superheroes!

[Cutlass]

I'm looking forward to this movie. MCU hasn't hit with everything. But their batting average is high enough to give anything a chance.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

I'm looking forward to this movie. MCU hasn't hit with everything. But their batting average is high enough to give anything a chance.

Same. I'm really curious how it's going to fit in with the rest of the MCU timeline.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I am totally amped for Black Widow

Me too.

, which has gotten me thinking about comparisons between comics and movies. Black Widow in the comics, to me, was a meh, sort of a Hawkeye sidekick and I thought Hawkeye was sort of a sidekick to start with. Don't know where the balance lies among better writing, changed perspectives, and S.J. portraying a character just brilliantly, but Black Widow in the MCU has pretty well stolen the show IMO. Gigantic tilt towards the MCU.

I was partial to Iron Man comics, and I think R.D. made an exceptional Tony Stark...so...a draw I guess.

Despite C.E. doing great and not taking anything away from him, comics Cap was a lot deeper I think so comics on this one.

C.H. benefits immensely from a lot of the most hilarious lines in the MCU having been written for him and I never thought Thor was anything but another overpowered Superman clone in the comics so another heavy tilt to the MCU.

Hawkeye as I already said was more like a sidekick in the comics IMO, and despite strong play by J.R. that never really went away...maybe just because it went so much stronger with Black Widow that even if there was a big improvement it just seems small still. Another draw, in a less good way than with Iron Man.

Hulk was sort of a non-entity for me in the comics. "Hulk smash" was way too trite and the endless Banner pity party was worse. The MCU and M.R. made salad out of something else on this one, and maybe get even more credit for having failed twice before in films. Big tilt to MCU.

Ant-man and the Wasp. Almost always taken together in the comics, almost always taken together in the MCU, so together here. In the comics this was the hardest disbelief suspension task Marvel ever assigned, IMO, and I had a hard time with getting it enough to enjoy the characters much at all. I think P.R. and E.L. did great with what they had and that M.D as the original Hank Pym was brilliant, but the MCU tried harder to paint a "look, really, sciencey" veneer over the absurdity that only made things worse. Tilt to the comics.

Black Panther was a lot more enigmatic in the comics than in the MCU. I like them both, but in such totally different ways that even though I was thinking about it pretty much from the start of this post I can't call it. So totally different I can't really even call it a draw.

There are more, obviously, but long post already. I seem to be pretty tilted towards the MCU. Anyone see it a lot differently?

I know Black Widow mainly from her time in Daredevil, but she was a supporting character in that, too. Johansson's portrayal has hinted at a lot without exploring much of it. In some cases, an enigmatic character is best left a mystery - sometimes the mystery is the whole point, and the hints we get are enough. Han Solo and The Joker are two such characters, for me, who aren't meant to have fully-realized backgrounds. I haven't seen Joker and Han Solo was decent, but kind of forgettable. Another such character is Shepherd Book in Firefly and Serenity; some people demanded more, but I think we got all we needed. The fact that his background is mysterious is part of the character: "You're gonna have to tell me about that sometime." "No, I don't."

So I would understand if someone thought Johansson's Natasha was one of those characters. We hear about Budapest a couple of times, for example, and we know that's meant to explain the bond she has with Clint, but we aren't supposed to be privy to the details. Likewise, the "red in [her] ledger": Obviously, she did some Bad Things, maybe ruined some people who didn't deserve to be ruined, killed some people who didn't deserve to die. There's a 90-second scene that I love in The Winter Soldier that tells us a lot about Natasha - or, depending on how you look at it, nothing at all.

Spoiler :

Steve: "You know it's kind of hard to trust someone when you don't know who that someone really is."
Natasha: "Yeah." <-- and there's a lot in the way she says "Yeah" and then sort of looks away and pauses
"Who do you want me to be?"
Steve: "How about a friend?"
Natasha: (chuckles) "Well, there's a chance you might be in the wrong business, Rogers."

And that's about all we know about her, I guess? Anyway, I'd get it if some people felt we're not supposed to know much about her, like Heath Ledger's Joker, whose story about how he got his scars kept changing. But I've come to want more of her. No, not like that, get your mind out of the gutter. Well, okay, yeah, like that - but not only like that. And she's formed interesting relationships with people on the Avengers. She came into it with a shared history with Clint, but I loved her frustrated romance with Bruce...

Scott: "Have either of you ever studied quantum physics?"
Natasha: "Only to make conversation."


...and her time on the run with Steve after Civil War begs for a story. They could have been fighting any number of 2nd- or 3rd-rate Marvel villains. Likewise, the only thing we know about the 5-year gap between Inifinity War and Endgame is that Natasha was running herself ragged trying to hold the world together, feeling guilty about Clint's family ("Auntie Nat!") and taking over from the dead Nick Fury and the retired Tony Stark in leading the remaining Avengers.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

As usual @EgonSpengler, you have gotten right to the core of things. Those two brief conversations are the character of the Black Widow. There is no Natasha beyond what you want her to be. That's the allure (well, and yeah, being Scarlett J in a revealing costume doesn't hurt) of the Black Widow. Was she really "Auntie Nat," or did she become that because that's who Clint needed her to be when she had a use for Clint? Even she probably can't answer that. Is there any doubt that if Rodgers was of use to her she was going to become exactly the friend he needed, fully conversant in early twentieth century life and culture as if she had been there, more by reflex than any actual intent? I think we are going to see that the red room training is just a total elimination of self so that she can be whoever the target desires, but who does that leave her to be when she's not on a mission?

I'm really surprised that I never got that from the comics, because of course my comic reading did span that stretch of time where the idea of a beautiful woman that would just become whatever I wanted was really appealing.

 

[EgonSpengler]

(well, and yeah, being Scarlett J in a revealing costume doesn't hurt)

Natasha: "Five years ago I was escorting a nuclear engineer out of Iran[...] The Winter Soldier was there. I was covering the engineer, so he shot him straight through me. Soviet slug, no rifling. Bye-bye bikinis."
Steve: "Yeah, I bet you look terrible in 'em now."

 

[EgonSpengler]

Fun photo from the set of Supergirl. I assume it's a plot spoiler for an upcoming episode.

Spoiler :

At first, I thought this might be a clever way to temporarily bench Melissa Benoist when she starts to show, by having Kara's powers transfer to Alex somehow, but it seems a little early for that. Maybe some kind of weird fallout from Crisis, or an encounter with Red Kryptonite or something? A radical reinvention of Power Girl? Anyway, I think Leigh wears it well, and I like the alternative color scheme.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Goddamnit, they have a sense of humor, too.

 

[Cutlass]

 

[EgonSpengler]

Kevin Smith mentioned again the rumor that Charlie Cox could appear in the next Spider-Man movie as a certain blind lawyer. I couldn't tell if he had some insight from someone he knows, but he couldn't come right out and say it, or if he was just saying "wouldn't it be cool if..?"

Obviously I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this show is good. I'm hoping it's enough of a success that it could lead to more Justice Society characters. We've already seen Jay Garrick, Carter Hall and Ted Grant in other CW 'Arrowverse' shows, and I don't think it would make a lot of sense for those characters to return, but there are plenty of others. I'm also curious how this show does with the SFX. I don't think these series have the budget that the Disney+ MCU shows will have. I just watched the episode of The Flash with Gorilla Grodd and Salivar, and the animation was a bit dated, but still okay. Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl also do a reasonable job with their characters' powers, even if at times it seems like they're avoiding using them too much.

 

[Timsup2nothin]

I just watched the episode of The Flash with Gorilla Grodd and Salivar, and the animation was a bit dated, but still okay.

I've been watching Voyage To the Bottom of the Sea. One hour a week of early 60s sci-fi TV and everything becomes awesome!

 

[Cutlass]

Kevin Smith mentioned again the rumor that Charlie Cox could appear in the next Spider-Man movie as a certain blind lawyer. I couldn't tell if he had some insight from someone he knows, but he couldn't come right out and say it, or if he was just saying "wouldn't it be cool if..?"



Obviously I'm keeping my fingers crossed that this show is good. I'm hoping it's enough of a success that it could lead to more Justice Society characters. We've already seen Jay Garrick, Carter Hall and Ted Grant in other CW 'Arrowverse' shows, and I don't think it would make a lot of sense for those characters to return, but there are plenty of others. I'm also curious how this show does with the SFX. I don't think these series have the budget that the Disney+ MCU shows will have. I just watched the episode of The Flash with Gorilla Grodd and Salivar, and the animation was a bit dated, but still okay. Legends of Tomorrow and Supergirl also do a reasonable job with their characters' powers, even if at times it seems like they're avoiding using them too much.

I haven't been watching most of them. Which one was Ted Grant in? I've rarely seen him in anything.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I haven't been watching most of them. Which one was Ted Grant in? I've rarely seen him in anything.

He made a brief appearance in Arrow, as a retired boxer helping Laurel train to become Black Canary after Sarah died. It was hardly more than a cameo, so of the three I mentioned, he's the one they could recycle without too many people noticing or caring.

EDIT: I forgot Dinah Drake, the Golden Age Black Canary. She was in Arrow and will be in Green Arrow & The Canaries, if it gets picked up to series. Jim Corrigan, The Spectre, also had a brief appearance in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Also in Arrow, Curtis became the modern Mister Terrific, but I don't know if there was ever a mention of there having once been a Golden Age Mister Terrific.

 

[Cutlass]

He made a brief appearance in Arrow, as a retired boxer helping Laurel train to become Black Canary after Sarah died. It was hardly more than a cameo, so of the three I mentioned, he's the one they could recycle without too many people noticing or caring.

EDIT: I forgot Dinah Drake, the Golden Age Black Canary. She was in Arrow and will be in Green Arrow & The Canaries, if it gets picked up to series. Jim Corrigan, The Spectre, also had a brief appearance in Crisis on Infinite Earths. Also in Arrow, Curtis became the modern Mister Terrific, but I don't know if there was ever a mention of there having once been a Golden Age Mister Terrific.

I haven't run across any Ted Grant centered stories. I see him as a supporting character. In some stories, he's like a 100 years old. He's always training someone or the other. Black Canary and Catwoman being notable. He's friends with Catwoman, even when she doesn't give up being a criminal.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I haven't run across any Ted Grant centered stories. I see him as a supporting character. In some stories, he's like a 100 years old. He's always training someone or the other. Black Canary and Catwoman being notable. He's friends with Catwoman, even when she doesn't give up being a criminal.

Yeah, I don't remember him being a very key member of the JSA, either. When I think "JSA" I think of the Golden Age Flash, Golden Age Green Lantern, Doctor Fate, Doctor Midnight, Power Girl, The Huntress, Hourman, The Sandman, Johnny Quick, Johnny Thunder and Thunderbolt. Come to think of it, another JSA member, Jesse Quick, was also in The Flash, but I don't think she survived Crisis. Incidentally, I looked up The CW's Wildcat last night, and it was the actor who played Oscar in season 2 of Jessica Jones.

 

[EgonSpengler]

Kevin Smith mentioned again the rumor that Charlie Cox could appear in the next Spider-Man movie as a certain blind lawyer. I couldn't tell if he had some insight from someone he knows, but he couldn't come right out and say it, or if he was just saying "wouldn't it be cool if..?"

Kevin Smith clarified that he was repeating the rumor, not citing any inside source. Oh well. On the bright side, one website I read noted that Netflix's deal for the character included a 2-year exclusivity clause after the show's end, which was October 2018. So Marvel/Disney will have the characters back in plenty of time for a Summer 2021 movie (I'm not sure when the next Spider-Man movie is due, that's just speculation on my part), and there's no reason they couldn't hire all the same actors, if they were game to do it.

 

[Cutlass]

 

[Cutlass]

 

[EgonSpengler]

Fun photo from the set of Supergirl. I assume it's a plot spoiler for an upcoming episode.

Spoiler :

At first, I thought this might be a clever way to temporarily bench Melissa Benoist when she starts to show, by having Kara's powers transfer to Alex somehow, but it seems a little early for that. Maybe some kind of weird fallout from Crisis, or an encounter with Red Kryptonite or something? A radical reinvention of Power Girl? Anyway, I think Leigh wears it well, and I like the alternative color scheme.

Alright, so it wasn't quite what I thought. I should've seen it coming, though, since Obsidian has been an ongoing story device the whole season. It did seem like they used the episode to hide Benoist's pregnancy, even though I didn't think she was that far along. I suppose the custom is to not announce a pregnancy right away, though, so maybe she's showing (and it's not like she's a big girl - she probably started showing in a week ). I read an interesting side-note about the episode... [minor plot spoiler]

Spoiler :

The clumsy way they wrote Dean Cain off the show may have been because he appeared at an event hosted by The Family Research Council, a conservative group that promotes Christian values in public policy and opposes LGBTQ and women's equality. Cain is known to be conservative, although he says he supports equal rights for queer people, and says he's pro-choice. Still, Nicole Maines doesn't just play a trans woman on tv, and who knows how many non-hetero people might be in the cast and crew. To be clear, that this could be the reason for writing him off the show is pure speculation, afaik. His absence from the episode, especially in the one scene where his character appeared, stood out like a sore thumb (and is he really so busy that he couldn't fly up to Vancouver for 1 day? Helen Slater managed to fit it into her schedule).

 

[CKS]

I suppose the custom is to not announce a pregnancy right away, though, so maybe she's showing (and it's not like she's a big girl - she probably started showing in a week ).

Pregnancies are weird through, and a little height can help hide things. My mother was 5'9" and 120 pounds when she got pregnant the first time, and five months in, when she told her father-in-law, he didn't believe her. On the other hand, she wasn't wearing a skin-tight suit, either. (I wore blazers to work for many years, and that was plenty to hide my belly until the 7th month, although my age and status also worked to keep people from suspecting things.)

 

[Timsup2nothin]

My sister is taking the shelter in place as an opportunity to watch the MCU movies in order. She's up to The Avengers.