1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Superheroes!

Discussion in 'Arts & Entertainment' started by EgonSpengler, Mar 10, 2015.

  1. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    I think that's definitely a possibility. I was just watching Kevin Smith & Mark Bernardin interviewing Malcolm Spellman a moment ago, and Bernardin asked Spellman whether he came down on the Sam Wilson side of things or the Isaiah Bradley side of things, and Spellman said he too was more of an Isaiah Bradley.

    Right, nobody freaked out over Heimdall or Valkyrie, and I doubt anyone will bat an eye about Moon Knight or Red Sonja being played by people who aren't White. I agree, though, the fact that we're getting into the 3rd- and 4th-tier comics characters is exciting. Like I said earlier, we're living in an age where we're going to see Red Guardian fighting Taskmaster in a big-budget Summer blockbuster, and it's not some kind of Galaxy Quest-type satire about nerds. A week or six ago, I saw an article about the Sony movies and they kind of ridiculed the idea of a Morbius movie, writing something like, "But is anybody really waiting for Morbius?" and I was like "I am!" :lol: :blush:


    p.s. Nothing wrong with Galaxy Quest, btw. I loved that movie.

    p.p.s.

    I tried to cue it up to the right time. 27:20 is where Bernardin asks Spellman the "Sam or Isaiah" question.
     
    Last edited: May 11, 2021
  2. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    Massive rumor-mongering around the web. Like, softball-sized grain of salt. Supposedly Disney+ will be moving the Netflix shows, Agent Carter and Agents of SHIELD into its "Marvel Legacy" section and rebooting some of the characters into the main MCU, namely Jessica Jones, Frank Castle, Wilson Fisk, Daisy Johnson, Phil Coulson, and Peggy Carter. No word on whether any of them would be recast (personally, I would want every one of those actors back - I'll be sure to let the Disney suits know that when they contact me to ask for my input, don't you worry).

    Later in this interview, Spellman talks about how impressed he was with Daniel Bruhl. He says Bruhl "was completely dialed in", and "it was like jazz, he was doing whatever he wanted and it all felt natural."
     
  3. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,185
    Location:
    On the one spin
    I also have reboot fatigue in general, regardless of whether they make any significant changes to the traditional/original character... Prequel fatigue too.

    Sometimes I just want the stories to move on... fresh faces, new talent, new stories. Then they have more freedom to build the characters and universe however they want without all the baggage.
     
    EgonSpengler likes this.
  4. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,275
    Thank goodness for minor characters. They bring the magic back, in that regard.
     
    EgonSpengler and Sommerswerd like this.
  5. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,185
    Location:
    On the one spin
    Keep in mind, that in the end, Isaiah Bradley ended up as a "I'll believe it when I see it". I think that's really where I am and I suspect others are as well.
     
    EgonSpengler likes this.
  6. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    Something Spellman said that I liked was that he wanted to make sure that at no point did the show or script suggest that Isaiah was wrong. I think he succeeded at the reverse, too. I never felt like the show was portraying Sam as naive (or, worse, as an Uncle T). The two men seemed well-balanced against each other. Spellman said Isaiah was intended to manifest some of Sam's doubts. He also mentioned the scene between Sam and Rhodey, as though it was important too, but he didn't elaborate and I don't know what he was thinking. Maybe I should go back and watch it again. I don't think Spellman mentioned the end scene, at the museum exhibit. I also wonder if Isaiah's (great?)grandson could eventually represent a fourth perspective on whether and how a Black man can represent America, if he goes on to become Patriot. He didn't say much in this series, other than by his suspicious attitude toward Sam.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  7. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,185
    Location:
    On the one spin
    For me, Rhodey's presence was to address the self-doubt/unworthiness that Sam was feeling, in part because he was black. Sam is thinking/feeling "I'm black, I can't be Captain America", and Rhodey shows up to say "You can't think you're unfit because you're black. If no black people step up to show they can do it, then everyone, including black people will continue believing black people can't do it."

    Then Sam starts to believe he can do it, that he is worthy, and so then Isaiah Bradley shows up to represent the attitude that "Of course you're worthy, of course you can do it... but they (white Americans) won't accept you, no matter how good you are, because you're black" then Sam's sister IIRC tells him essentially, that Bradley's way of thinking is the old way, and he can't let that kind of thinking hold him back, he has to try anyway. In the end, Bradley comes around to a sort of "Ok, you're giving it a shot at trying to be Captain America, and it seems like they (white Americans) are giving it a shot at accepting you as Captain America. I'm proud of you, we'll see how it goes."
     
    Cutlass and EgonSpengler like this.
  8. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    That's right, I'd forgotten about Sam's conversation with his sister after he meets Isaiah.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    Messages:
    20,185
    Location:
    On the one spin
    I kind of groaned/rolled-eyes at the Shang-Chi: And the Legend of the Ten Rings trailer on sort of "Ugh... Asian character= Kung Fu Master? Really?", grounds... but after reading this article, about the casting of Tilda Swinton as "The Ancient One", I have to say I'm rethinking that at bit... maybe I was mistaken to feel that way. TL;DR - The article brings up the catch-22... If you cast an Asian character in a Kung-Fu/Karate master role, then of course you are playing in to old stereotypes. But if you instead substitute a non-Asian character into the role, then you are essentially scrubbing out an Asian character from one of those already rare opportunities to be a leading character, in favor of a non Asian character. So you're denying an Asian actor the opportunity to play a character that was originally written as Asian. It's an interesting dilemma, that I admit I had not considered before. As an aside, I will add that Tilda Swinton was awesome in the MCU.

    https://www.menshealth.com/entertainment/a36449310/marvel-kevin-feige-whitewashing-doctor-strange/
     
    Cutlass and EgonSpengler like this.
  10. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    io9 reports that Bruce Timm (Batman: The Animated Series) is co-producing a new animated Batman show for HBO Max with J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves (who's directing the upcoming live-action The Batman with Robert Pattinson). I don't know what role Abrams and Reeves are playing in it, other than to speculate that Bad Robot is involved and that the animated series will be related to the live-action feature and Reeves is in as a consultant to make sure the series doesn't conflict or depart from the movie.

    I'm not a huge fan of animated stuff, mostly just Pixar, but Batman: TAS is one of the few I've really enjoyed in the last ~30 years.
    (Large image, not a spoiler.)
    Spoiler :

     
  11. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    I think the way out of the Catch-22 is dual-pronged. First, I think we have to tease apart the genuine stories that are at the heart of the stereotypes, get rid of the junk and then tell those stories properly. In the case of East Asians, martial arts stories are important parts of their cultures, so not telling those stories would be erasing parts of their cultures. And we should probably let East Asians and the East Asian diaspora tell those East Asian stories, at least for a while. I think hiring Cretton, Liu, Leung, Yeoh and Awkwafina to tell the story is the right way to go. Cretton's collaborator on the script, David Callaham, is also Chinese-American. Let them figure out whether and how to rewrite the Western stereotype of the villainous East Asian warlord. Shang-Chi's arch-nemesis was originally Fu Manchu, from the 1910s-1920s, and I guess they decided "You know what, this [poo] is unsalvageable; let's use an updated version of The Mandarin instead."

    The second thing I think we have to do to get out of the Catch-22 is hire people from our myriad communities to tell non-culturally-specific stories in addition to the culturally-specific ones. For every Shang-Chi, we also need Crazy Rich Asians and The Farewell; and for every One Night in Miami, we should also get a Moonlight. On the one hand, we don't want to 'whitewash' anything; otoh, we don't want to funnel women, people of color, and queer people into only telling those stories that require them. I remember years ago reading an interview with Eva Mendes and she said she'd had a good audition for something, but was told that the director and/or producers "didn't want to go ethnic with the role." In other words, they felt that if they cast a non-White actress for the character, they'd have to rewrite the character to make her ethnicity part of the character in some way - it couldn't just be incidental. We've gotta stop that. I do think there's been some progress on that score. I mentioned Zendaya and Jacob Batalon earlier, as non-White actors in supporting roles for a White lead, but I don't remember their ethnicities ever being shown to be key parts of their characters, or even mentioned.
     
    Cutlass and Sommerswerd like this.
  12. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,391
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Near the Greatest Snow on Earth
    The first two DSNP series fell flat for me, so here's hoping third times the charm. New mini trailer with "Miss Minutes". :lol:

     
    Clubber Lang and EgonSpengler like this.
  13. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,275
    All this navel gazing is pretty rough, I agree. :lol:

    Its getting a little NPR, but like with the movies about camel toes and codpieces punching people in the face.
     
    EgonSpengler likes this.
  14. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male
    You didn't like WandaVision or Falcon? I had quibbles with both, but I thought they both hit the mark pretty squarely. "Did what it said on the tin", as our friends who drive on the wrong side of the road would say.

    I don't mind a little navel gazing, and I think some people need to do it more than they do. I liked something Kevin Fiege said about casting Tilda Swinton as The Ancient One in Doctor Strange.
    What I like about that is that it's not strictly about being "woke", it's about being a better, more creative filmmaker. Setting aside for a moment whether anyone in the audience would be offended by the stereotype, he was simply trying to avoid the eye-rolling cliche, which is something I bet every artist can relate to. I also like that he's acknowledging that this isn't an insurmountable problem. He's not just throwing up his hands and whining "geez, what do you guys want from me? unicorns and rainbows?" He's working the problem. Anyone who works for a living ought to be able to relate to that. Sometimes you just have to 'take the L', go back and watch the tapes, and do it better next time.
     
    Sommerswerd likes this.
  15. Farm Boy

    Farm Boy The long wait

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2010
    Messages:
    20,275
    I think I'd take unicorns and rainbows with better grace, honestly. But you're right. It's not the casting that gets tiring, Superman works fine as an adopted black kid if the writing is good(and superman being another level of outsider, while he's already a ****ing alien that is fundamentally different from everybody else, is a little on the nose. Harder to write, fine, but might be ok. It's the "NPR" that get eye rolling. Then again, better on sexpot superheroes than elsewhere. We can even dress up our dress up as ... progressive, or something! Hehehe.
     
  16. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,391
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Near the Greatest Snow on Earth
    Honestly, no one in my family particularly liked either of them. In fact, we never finished The Falcon & The Winter Soldier. The mains in each show were great, but the ancillary characters were just uninteresting or downright annoying. I think I mentioned elsewhere that the writing felt uneven and the plot was just not that engaging on both shows. I don't think it's superhero fatigue since we all loved Jupiter's Legacy, maybe it's just Marvel fatigue. Loki looks good, though, so maybe it will fix the malaise.
     
  17. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,515
    The Disney+ series were acceptable, but that's about the best I can say.
     
  18. EgonSpengler

    EgonSpengler Deity

    Joined:
    Jun 26, 2014
    Messages:
    7,466
    Gender:
    Male


    I liked the glimpse of the ancient city (Babylon, I presume). There's not much here that suggests what the film's story will be.
     
    Laurana Kanan likes this.
  19. Synsensa

    Synsensa Deity Retired Moderator

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2006
    Messages:
    22,515
    Gave me pretty strong Inhumans vibes.
     
    EgonSpengler and Sommerswerd like this.
  20. Laurana Kanan

    Laurana Kanan Don’t underestimate who I am. Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2014
    Messages:
    3,391
    Gender:
    Female
    Location:
    Near the Greatest Snow on Earth
    ^ In general from the comics, or from that horrible TV show a few years ago? In either case, I don't really see any similarities, except at a very, very superficial level.

    My one question is, if Thanos was not a threat great enough for them to get involved before, what possibly could motivate them now? The Deviants apparently, but I don't see how they could possibly be more of a threat than wiping out half of the life in the universe.

    Btw, the poster is absolutely gorgeous!

     
    Last edited: May 24, 2021
    EgonSpengler likes this.

Share This Page