Superheroes!

[Cutlass]

As with all superhero films

Yeah, but some far more than others.

 

[EgonSpengler]

IndieWire, 31 January 2023 - "Superman, Batman, Supergirl, and Swamp Thing Movies, Green Lantern Series Among DC Universe’s First Chapter"

After weeks of chatter and rumor, DC Studios heads James Gunn and Peter Safran have finally unveiled 10 different projects that compose the first chapter of a long-term, interconnected universe of movies and shows based on the DC comics characters. Among them: new Superman, Batman, Supergirl, and Swamp Thing feature films, as well as new series built around the Green Lantern, the origins of Wonder Woman’s birthplace, and one centered around Viola Davis’ Amanda Waller character.

Chapter 1 of the DCU is titled “Gods and Monsters,” and while the 10 projects revealed Tuesday are currently expected to be included in that first chapter, that may change in time and more projects may be added to that lineup over time. Still, they are only a snippet of what’s to come as part of an eight- to 10-year plan that is spread across multiple chapters and which already includes the bones of what is envisioned as Chapter 2.

Safran and Gunn hope to eventually get to the point where they’re releasing between two films and two shows per year. That also doesn’t include other announced projects, such as the upcoming “Joker: Folie a Deux,” the officially titled “The Batman Part II,” or even shows like “Teen Titans Go!” Moving forward, these projects will exist outside of the DCU and will be given the branding “DC Elseworlds,” just as the comics are labeled, as will other DC projects, such as the long in-development Black Superman movie from Ta-Nehisi Coates.

The 10 projects:

Spoiler :

“Creature Commandos”

The very first project on the DCU slate is “Creature Commandos,” an animated show that is already completely written by Gunn, is in production now, and includes characters such as Weasel and Rick Flag Sr familiar from “The Suicide Squad.” The show will be cast so that voice actors for this show can portray the characters in subsequent live-action projects,

“Waller”

Viola Davis is reprising her role as Amanda Waller in this series that continues the story of Gunn’s “Peacemaker.”

“Superman: Legacy”

Though Gunn previously announced his Superman movie, the film now has a formal title and a tentative release date for July 11, 2025.

“Lanterns”

In development now and featuring both Green Lantern characters of Hal Jordan and John Stewart

“The Authority”

“The Authority” is a superhero comic originally published by DC Comics under the Wildstorm imprint in 1999 and that first appeared as a team of superheroes in the “Stormwatch” comics. The characters will be integrated into the larger DCU as part of a feature film that branches off from “Superman: Legacy,”

“Paradise Lost”

Described as “Game of Thrones” meets “Wonder Woman,” “Paradise Lost” is a series that explores the origins of Themyscira, the home of the Amazons and birthplace of Wonder Woman.

“The Brave and the Bold”

“The Brave and the Bold” is a film that will serve as the introduction of the DCU Batman and the DCU Robin, in this case Damian Wayne, or Bruce Wayne’s son whom he didn’t know existed for the early years of his life. The film will be based on Grant Morrison’s run of Batman comics

“Booster Gold”

Considered a fan favorite in DC Comics lore, “Booster Gold” is about a loser from the future who uses basic futuristic technology to return to present day and pretend to be a superhero. The project will be a series for HBO Max.

“Supergirl: Woman of Tomorrow”

Based on Tom King’s acclaimed comic of the same name that was just released in July 2022[...] described as a much more “hardcore” take than audiences are used to seeing from the Supergirl character.

“Swamp Thing”

A horror film that differs in tone from the other stories of the DCU but will still integrate into the larger universe down the road,

I don't really know what to make of any of this yet, but okay, I'm intrigued. I never read The Authority, but it's interesting they're making a less well-known comic an important part of the ongoing story. I had wondered if the recent announcement that Titans and Doom Patrol were ending their runs on HBO Max could mean those teams would be playing a part in the new DCU, but I guess not. (Also, DC Comics is making the Titans the centerpiece of their line of comics, which again, made me wonder if the new DCU might feature them.) And I don't know what a "more hardcore" take on Supergirl might be, but now I'm curious to see the recent comic.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Eh. I've read the recent comic - there's something there, but something about it -art, pacing, I dunno- doesn't quite come together. Probably doesn't have much bearing on how good the movie turns out.

 

[Clubber Lang]

D.C. Chapter 1 -

James Gunn shares his vision for the future of the DC Universe and the upcoming slate from DC Studios. Get ready to see stories you never imagined possible before on the big screen. Which project are you most excited about?

Chapter 2 already mapped out, 2 Cinematic movies and 2 HBO series per year for at least 8-10 years and maybe more.
Gunn's contract for 4 years and maybe extended.

---------------------

D.C. games -

New DC Comics games will have the same voice actors as the movies​

We’re glad we’re not the ones that have to organise all this (pic: DC Comics)
The next time there’s a new Superman or Batman game, they’ll have the same actors providing the voices as in the movies and shows.
As you may already know, DC Comics and owners Warner Bros. have announced a major new wave of movies and TV shows, as a result of Guardians Of The Galaxy director James Gunn becoming joint head of everything DC-related – in an equivalent role to Marvel’s Kevin Feige.
This has led to the announcement of new Superman and Batman films, which will form the basis of a new connected movie and TV universe following the events of the upcoming Flash film, which will reset the existing Snyderverse.
The idea is that the same actors will play the same versions of each character in movies, TV shows, and animation, but it’s also been confirmed that this will be the case for video games – although which ones isn’t yet clear.
The whole situation is confusing because it’s not until the new Superman movie in 2025 that the new version of the DC Universe will really take off and until then there’ll still be new movies that are technically part of the Snyderverse, such as Aquaman 2, that will come out after The Flash film.
Given the fact that there’ll be at least two Batman actors – Robert Pattinson for standalone movies and whoever they get for the connected ones – DC is already having to use the term Elseworlds to indicate films that are part of the main continuity and those that are not.

This will be true of games as well, since obviously there’s no time to change anything about the constantly delayed Suicide Squad: Kill The Justice League, which is finally due out in May.
The only other confirmed DC Comics game at the moment is an open world Wonder Woman title by Shadow Of Mordor developer Monolith Productions, although nothing has been seen or heard of it since it was first announced via nothing but a logo and a character render.
That was a while ago now, so it wasn’t started with the idea of fitting into the new DC Universe, but there’s a chance it could be retrofitted to be part of it. Especially as there’s a new Amazon themed TV show on the way – although whether it will feature Wonder Woman, and whether she’ll be played by Gal Gadot, is unclear.

No new games were announced as part of this week’s revelations but Gunn (who worked as a scriptwriter on 2012’s Lollipop Chainsaw) did address them in a subsequent blog
‘It’s not like we’re going to have the Superman movie come out and have this Superman game come out. It’s more like we’ll have the Superman film come out, then maybe two years later, we have the Supergirl movie coming out. So, what’s the story in between there? Is there a Krypto game that we can play that comes in between them? Something that’s still set in the world with these characters, but is its own thing. We want to give the prominence to games that they deserve.’
Given how much else he and co-DC head Peter Safran have had to do in the last few months it’s not clear how seriously either has really thought about games, especially given how difficult it will be to organise any of this.
It’s not unknown for the same voice actor to voice the same character in multiple games, the most obvious example being the late, great Kevin Conroy as Batman, as well as many of his peers in the old DC Animated Universe.

The idea of getting major movie stars to record dialogue at the drop of a hat, whenever needed for a video game, sounds like a logistical nightmare though, especially if you want to avoid them just phoning in the performance.

Surprisingly, though, it has happened before. The 2005 tie-in to Batman Begins features almost the entire cast of the movie, including Christian Bale and Michael Caine (Gary Oldman is the only notable absentee but he has done voice work before, most famously for Call Of Duty).

The game wasn’t very good, and they probably spent most of their budget on the actors, but it proves the concept Gunn and Safran are promoting is not impossible.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I watched Wakanda Forever (2022) last night. It almost single-handedly redeemed Marvel's 2022. Top-shelf. Boseman's death was handled very well, and was blended well with the Marvely action and multiple plot-threads. A great villain. Fans of The Sub-Mariner from the comics can breathe easy, at least for now. I have to admit I was a little put off by the news of Letitia Wright being anti-mask or ant-vax or whatever she was (I never looked at it too closely), but [goshdarnit] the woman can [flipping] act. She hit me in the feels at least twice. Bassett and Huerta were both just about perfect, as well. It is long, and you can definitely argue that some things were unnecessary, but I was never bored and I never checked to see how much time was left. Coogler really did a masterful job juggling the story he originally wanted to tell with the death of Boseman and the demands of slotting the movie into the MCU. The action set-pieces were fun, even on a small screen at home. I know people are complaining about how dark the lighting is, and I do think you need to watch it at night, turn off the lights, and set aside the devices if you're going to watch this. It's a movie, meant to be watched like a movie.

Spoiler :

I didn't really connect with Ri-Ri, and I didn't think she added much to central story. I think she probably should have been just a quick cameo, as the person who built the device, and her suit of armor could have been introduced in her own show. Everett Ross and The Contessa also got too much screentime. He could've been a fun little cameo, and she didn't need to be there at all. We don't know either of them well enough to care that they were once married. That didn't tell me anything about either of them.

I liked seeing more of Wakanda, the glimpses of Talocan, and most of the underwater stuff. I expect a lot of that probably looked better on the big screen, but I never really regretted not seeing this in a theater. [/quote]

 

[BenitoChavez]

The world building they did with Namor's people was really well done. I also thought the music was great for the most part.

Spoiler :

I feel awkward calling them Namor's people but I don't think the movie gave them a name. I know they were originally Mayans but they were genetically altered by the magic blue plant. So they aren't really the same anymore. Their city was called Talokan so does that make them Talokans? Google tells me they were Atlantians but that definitely wasn't mentioned in the movie.

 

[RobAnybody]

I watched Wakanda Forever (2022) last night. It almost single-handedly redeemed Marvel's 2022. Top-shelf. [Me: rest just snipped for brevity]

I disagree (JMO obviously). I found it dull, mostly. Not even close to the first Black Panther movie. I also just watched it recently (when it came to Disney+). I liked Okoye, M'Baku, & even Nakia was far for interesting & involved than in the first movie. But I didn't like Shuri & Riri basically trying to out-Mary Sue each other, & the plot just didn't make a whole lot of sense. Once a device has been invented, killing the person who invented it accomplishes nothing really. I mean, would killing Oppenheimer *after* he'd helped create the atomic bomb really prevent more? Just doesn't make sense.

Also rolled my eyes at the "N'Amor" explanation (& mis-pronunciation) of his name. "You can call me 'No Love' because I totes have no love for... these other people I pretty much never interact with". He was portrayed well, & mostly in character with his comic book character, but the changes to his backstory didn't land with me. It was not a bad movie by any measure (again IMO), but I just didn't truly enjoy it.

Unlike the first Black Panther, & most pre-Phase IV movies really, I have no desire to rewatch this one*. It was on par with Thor: Love & Thunder for me: mostly "meh" & largely forgettable. The best part was the first 10-15 minutes with the tribute to T'Challa/Chadwick Boseman.

* EDIT: except for Black Widow every once in a while, b/c as I've mentioned in previous posts, I Yelena.

 

[EgonSpengler]

The world building they did with Namor's people was really well done. I also thought the music was great for the most part.

Spoiler :

I feel awkward calling them Namor's people but I don't think the movie gave them a name. I know they were originally Mayans but they were genetically altered by the magic blue plant. So they aren't really the same anymore. Their city was called Talokan so does that make them Talokans? Google tells me they were Atlantians but that definitely wasn't mentioned in the movie.

I did 30 seconds of Googling last night, to find out what an endonym for the people of a place called "Talokan" might be, and I wasn't able to come up with something. It's not as simple as putting a suffix on it, like "Talokani" or whatever.

I did find this, which I thought was interesting:

Tlālōcān (Nahuatl pronunciation: [t͡ɬaːˈloːkaːn̥]; "place of Tlāloc") is described in several Aztec codices as a paradise, ruled over by the rain deity Tlāloc and his consort Chalchiuhtlicue. It absorbed those who died through drowning or lightning, or as a consequence of diseases associated with the rain deity. Tlālōcān has also been recognized in certain wall paintings of the much earlier Teotihuacan culture. Among modern Nahua-speaking peoples of the Gulf Coast, Tlālōcān survives as an all-encompassing concept embracing the subterranean world and its denizens.

Whether or not the writers of the MCU were deliberately alluding to the myth of Tlalocan with "Talokan", they should say that they were. "Yup. Totally. Good catch."

 

[Cutlass]

I did 30 seconds of Googling last night, to find out what an endonym for the people of a place called "Talokan" might be, and I wasn't able to come up with something. It's not as simple as putting a suffix on it, like "Talokani" or whatever.

I did find this, which I thought was interesting:

Whether or not the writers of the MCU were deliberately alluding to the myth of Tlalocan with "Talokan", they should say that they were. "Yup. Totally. Good catch."

Yeah, but Mexico is a really long ways from Africa....

 

[EgonSpengler]

I'm not sure this is actually news or if I just missed it before, but I saw that Matt Shakman is directing The Fantastic Four for Marvel. I'd never heard of him before. He's got a looong record of directing episodes of television series. It looks like this might be his first feature film. I guess that's not the worst thing. Other tv directors have done well in the MCU, most notably Joe & Anthony Russo, and the real film directors are the ones who've struggled or quit. He directed all 9 episodes of WandaVision, which I think was at least competent work.

The writers of FF are a near-total mystery. They each have the same 3 credits in IMDb, none of which even ring a bell for me.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Fantastic Four has potential to be the greatest MCU entry of all - (small core cast, emphasize the explorers and family over the fighters-of-bad-guys, but do fight some, etc. Blow a little budget on good (thought-through) CG Strange New Worlds. There's 60 years of stories to mine - pick a good one and do that one story well, don't get too complicated/ambitious and fail at too-many-things-at-once)...

-But I'm not betting the rent on it...

 

[Buster's Uncle]

The Fantastic Four, as John Byrne and others have pointed out, is the Challengers of the Unknown w/ powers - and the Challengers themselves are an older arctype - the nerdy-but-fit adventure scientist/explorer; his roughtough best friend who does the fighting (and any actual heavy lifting); and his love interest w/ her little brother tagging along.

Remember what George Lucas forgot by the 90s - it's High Adventure. It's fun. It moves fast, done right, too fast to give you a chance to think and notice the logic omissions and screwups. It's a very flexible concept that can incorporate pure comedy, space opera, Galactus, straight superheroics and lost cities like a Tarzan movie w/o Tarzan. (-Just not all at once, and let the people of Opar be black.)

Think Indiana Jones before those sucked - do that with the Thing and a rubberman, cast a wholesome hot Sue, do the obvious things w/ Johnny - do all that well, and you've got yourself a MOVIE.

 

[EgonSpengler]

One thing a new Fantastic Four really needs to do right, imo, is portray Reed Richards as a genius, and not just a dork. I don't even think we need the archetypal shorthand of genius=dork anymore - the MCU's portrayals of Tony Stark and Peter Parker have jettisoned that trope out the airlock already - but okay, whatever, I don't care that much about that.* What's critical is that Reed's intellect is essentially a super-power. We never really got that with Tony (which was okay for that character, but a bit of a lost opportunity - I was more aggravated that Bruce was never shown using his brains; that would have been the best contrast between Bruce and Hulk, instead of just having Bruce be sad all the time).

Another thing that'll be really important for me is a creative use of Reed & Susan's powers. I thought Peyton Reed did a great job with Ant-Man and Ant-Man & The Wasp making those characters' powers seem both fun and useful, and making seem as though the characters had given some thought to how to use their abilities. And famously, The Incredibles (2004) really showed up The Fantastic Four (2005) in that department, in how they used Elastigirl's powers. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a movie character who had forcefields as a super-power, so there's some room for the MCU to do something that hasn't already been done.

Notably, and perhaps ominously, I thought the portrayal of Reed Richards in Multiverse of Madness failed miserably in both of these areas. The moment where he simply rushes Wanda after she kills Black Bolt was a catastrophic failure of imagination on the part of the writer(s). Just awful.



* There's one place where I think it could even help the overall dynamic to make Reed Richards a bit socially inept: Among other things, I think that could enable a nice dynamic with Sue Storm being the more outgoing one. My fantasy-casting for FF has a Sue Storm who's outgoing, confident, and more of the action hero than Reed (I would cast Kathryn Winnick, opposite Jon Hamm). Reed's friendship with Ben Grimm might also be more fun if Reed is kind of a dork; Ben as the guy who drags Reed out to a bar or a game once in a while, and maybe is the one who introduced Reed to Susan.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

As Reed? A youngish, live, Russel Johnson who's a better actor would be perfect. Reed's a leading man type, albeit a tad older and thinner than most. He's a natural leader, and the absent-minded nerdy part can easily be overdone. Just think handsome, confident professorial type - think about the pipe in his mouth. Rock Hudson ca Martian Chronicles before he got sick would work. Gregory Peck ca To Kill a Mockingbird. I'm sure the right actual live actor is out there.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I like the idea of the FF being older, but I won't be at all surprised if the MCU goes younger. I really don't want an origin story, and I think I'd hate to see a YA FF, but I could see Reed and Susan in their postdoc years, early in their superheroing careers.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

The FF was first - no need to dwell on that and lampshade awkward continuity probs, but I rather like the notion of starting in medias res, a veteran team, ignoring the -not-that-interesting-anyway- origin for now. You know, just jump right in there, discovering the Skrull infiltration or exploring the Mole Man's cave world...

 

[Cutlass]

I finished Wakanda Forever. Mixed opinions on it. Decent story telling and acting. Poor action scenes. Some unnecessary parts.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

I got the impression from the trailer that it would be powerful if you loved Chadwic Boseman, and not if you didn't...

---

Sue is the world's hottest mom - that last being where Jessica Alba wasn't quite right. Whether Franklin is born or not -and do leave him back at the Baxter Building w/ Agatha Harkness, only a cameo- she fusses over Reed, 'cause she loves him, and he can be kinda helpless when he's distracted, which is usually - and to a lesser extent, her brother and Ben, 'cause they ain't got all the good sense in world, and she loves them. I wouldn't want her written like Stan Lee's early women -that caused one to wonder if that married man & father had ever met a girl- but she almost certainly also fusses at Johnny who she mostly raised herself. They're a family, and she's the Mom. The Boys need taking care of, and it's her nature.

 

[EgonSpengler]

I got the impression from the trailer that it would be powerful if you loved Chadwic Boseman, and not if you didn't...

Yeah, I imagine that's probably true, but I wouldn't expect too many non-Boseman fans to be watching this movie in the first place. I guess someone could like the supporting characters and the world-building around Boseman's performance as T'Challa, but without liking Boseman's performance as T'Challa. You also might watch Wakanda Forever if you're a fan of The Sub-Mariner.

I was thinking about how this movie might be different if Boseman had simply decided he didn't want to play the character anymore. None of the major MCU characters has been recast. Only Rhodey and Cassie Lang, that I can think of, and they were both supporting characters, at least at the time of the recasting.

 

[Buster's Uncle]

Just loving the Panther in a movie I haven't seen might do the trick for all I know, though it all looked rather blatantly about Boseman -which tends to take you right out of immersion, if so- but I'm watching from the outside, like seeing grief on the news for a murder victim I didn't know and don't pretend to connect with.