Superior Germany

[Blackdragon]

first of all the germanic tribes forced down rome and establish the holy roman empire of the german nations after the dark age.
the "germans" are the best and stronges representatives of the germanic tribes not the austrians or swiss.
so Berlin is the capital of all germans even for the austrians.
in the middle age the holy roman empire was the most powerfull empire in the world. after all the other civs around put down german power in the 30 years war germany was reunited again by the prussian-germans.
hitler would never won his war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
britain alone would have stop em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
germany did not lost ww1 couse of superior allied forced but couse of a revolution by the german people.
the nazis would never developed the nuke-bomb
every single sientist on the german nuke program hold back key-knowledge to prevent nazis getting a atom-bomb.
if hitler had been in power after 45 there would be some kind of revolution couse no single german could live in a nazi-ruled germany longer then 6-10 years.
Japan never had a chance against the USA
Pearl Habour is a fake
the US secret service provocated the japanese to attac hawaii
they wanted 3000 dead to unite the us-american population behind the rosewelt-regime. the rosewelt-regime needed a reason to attac japan and germany to gain world-domination
this was a plan

 

[SCPete]

Hitler was a phenomenal speaker which along with the Depression was the reason he came into power. Blamed the whole deprssion on the Jews. Every german belived him and stood behind that.

When it came to military planning Hitler was plain stupid. An obvious failure in the subject of history.

As far as scientific advances Hitler and his scientists were brilliant.
Although their methods were cruel without them we would not be as far biologically without them. He was facinated with the human body and what made it tick.

Germans were also the first to develop the car, missles, tanks, camoflague nets and many others. I also belive the Nazis would of developed the nuclear bomb had Hitler not decrease funding for science towards the later part of the war.

Japan never had a chance against the US in the air or sea but if we were to land in Japan things might of been different. Japan had the numbers advantage.

Pearl harbor fake? Who are you trying to kid? What the Japanese just sneak attack a fishing fleet in Hawaii? Come on!

What does the secret service have to do with provocing the Japanese into attacking the US?

Why would Rosevelt need a reason to join the war if he was only after world - domination? That makes no sense.

 

[Richard III]

Originally posted by Blackdragon
Pearl Habour is a fake
the US secret service provocated the japanese to attac hawaii
they wanted 3000 dead to unite the us-american population behind the rosewelt-regime. the rosewelt-regime needed a reason to attac japan and germany to gain world-domination
this was a plan

Yes, a brilliant plan!

Roosevelt wants to go to war with Nazi Germany. So, what does he do? Instead of setting out to have the Japanese bomb a random gunboat or a destroyer, the Americans deliberately con the Japanese into destroying 4/5ths of their entire pacific fleet! And the Japanese sleepwalked into it! Didn't have a clue! Just like they were conned into attacking Malaysia, Thailand, Singapore and the Dutch East Indies!

In an era where old Navy guys like FDR thought that battleships still ruled the waves, he deliberately manipulates Japan into destroying every last American battleship! Well done, FDR!

Why ? Well, of course!!! It's obvious! So they could lose 100,000 lives, all in an ingenous plan to free the Phillipines from American rule and then spend billions to revive the conquered Japanese economy to a point that it's considered a trade threat!

But wait, didn't he want to go to war with GERMANY? No problem, because he planned for the fact that Hitler would be stupid enough to declare war on the US on December 9th, without provocation, all along!

This forum is starting to persuade me, a diehard radical democrat, that maybe the public shouldn't be allowed to vote. (I have some other more unkind things to say about your historical knowledge and other things, but forum rules forbid me...).

R.III

 

[TrailblazingScot]

I'll say them Richard III if you won't

What exactly brought on this thread? What is it trying to tell us? Certainly nothing about Civilisations in Civ3 and certainly it trys to tell us a limited version of history.

Britain alone may not have been able to beat Germany in 1940...but if she had got real with Hitler anytime before the fall of the Sudentenland then bye bye Hitler.

There may be some truth that America ignored the threat posed by Japan...but that didn't make America conduct the attack.

Indeed it was Hitler who declared war on America...and thus brought America to war with Germany...thus again it wasn't the doing of America but of Axis powers. So if it was a grand plan by the American leadership then your precious Nazis went for it with their eyes open and provided the rope for their own execution.



Quite simply this thread doesn't go anywhere...doesn't indeed say anything that people can put into a Civ3 context and ignores the intricacies of the world to give glory to Germany in he most dubious of situations.

You are a disgrace to civfanatics and I hope you are banned.

 

[eyrei]

Originally posted by Blackdragon
first of all the germanic tribes forced down rome and establish the holy roman empire of the german nations after the dark age.

Didn't the fall of Rome begin the dark ages. If I recall correctly from my coursework, the Germanic tribes 'forced down' a Roman empire that was begging to be beaten because of internal problems. As for the rest, what in the hell are you talking about?:crazyeyes

 

[Mud]

What a weird posting! All in all, I'd say it's a lame attempt to excuse the German people from the horrors they inflicted between 1933 and 1945. Kind of a guilt thing going on.

(in the middle age the holy roman empire was the most powerfull empire in the world.)

I believe at this time, there were some pretty strong Islamic empires much stronger than the Holy Roman Empire. This was the peak of the Ottoman Empire, wasn't it? And there were empires much larger and better developed in Asia, too.

(hitler would never won his war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

This is about the only thing I agree with. German hubris drove it to wage war against the two largest powers the world has ever seen -- the U.S. and U.S.S.R. -- simultaneously. Oops!

(britain alone would have stop em!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Whatever. The Brits barely hung on. Actually, the U.S.S.R. saved their butts. If it weren't for the slavic peoples of the east, Britain would still be a German colony today.

(the nazis would never developed the nuke-bomb
every single sientist on the german nuke program hold back key-knowledge to prevent nazis getting a atom-bomb.)

The German scientists certainly didn't hold back from creating other weapons of mass destruction, such as the buzz bombs. And they certainly were keen on developing methods to liquidate Jews in the concentration camps, as well as performing inhumane reseach on the inmates. There's no evidence that German scientists' morality prevented Germany from developing nukes.

(if hitler had been in power after 45 there would be some kind of revolution couse no single german could live in a nazi-ruled germany longer then 6-10 years.)

Considering that the Germans by 1945 had lived 12 years under Nazi rule, it is easy to call this statement categorically false. Additionally, considering that there was absolutely no organized resistance to the Nazi government despite its abombinable record against human rights and basic freedoms, it is unlikely that such resistance would have suddenly materialized. Basically, it took a military occupation for the Germans to embrace democracy.

 

[Rhye]

This post is completely off-topic (it should be moved to off-topic forum) and it's only a lot of STRONZATE. Mud has already said everything...

 

[Immortal]

"Pearl Habour is a fake
the US secret service provocated the japanese to attac hawaii
they wanted 3000 dead to unite the us-american population behind the rosewelt-regime. the rosewelt-regime needed a reason to attac japan and germany to gain world-domination"

Wow, there's an unconventional belief, it's not everyday you hear theories like that, I have to say it sounds a little far out. But it's not like it hasn't happened, the reichstag for instance, to drum up support for the German government from its people, but that's a slightly different situation. I doubt very much any government would trick nations into attacking and killing their citizens so they could get popular support.

 

[God]

Holy Roman empire wasn't that powerful.
After all they couldn't defeat the Seljuks in the Mid-East.
The Seljuk Turks were alot more powerful.
And then the Mongols came and after they left the Seljuks got even more powerful.

 

[seghillian]

Germany 1 England 5

Anyone here play CIV III?

 

[milty]

1. Holy Roman Empire? LAUGHING OUT LOUD. There was no EMPIRE even in Charlemagne's reign. There was a loose feudal system of which Charlemagne was the technical head, but even he only held a percentage of the land, the empire declined thereafter with his sons, Lothar, Louis, Peppin (not sure about their names so don't bug me bout it). Holy Roman Empire was a fake empire that is only significant because it gave a sense of a reunited Europe after the fall of Rome. The Germans are only in Europe cuz of the westard movement started by the Hun, who were defeated in East Asia by the Chinese, in which caused a domino effect that brought down every tribe in the way and caused them to move west, like the Franks, Vandals, etc. Germans are one of them.

2. Pearl Harbor was a desperate attempt by the Japanese to obtain massive resources in SE Asia with at least a slight delay of US retaliation. Pearl Harbor was a tactical success, but definately a strategic mistake. This was all because of the Japanese army bogged down in China because of the Chinese resistance, in which no remedy or treaty would be signed by the Chinese unless Japan got out of Manchuria, which it never would. The 1.2 million Japanese troops in China was slowly suffocating the entire nation of Japan, and Pearl Harbor was the beginning of the end for Japan. If the Chinese had surrendered like the French did, who knows where Japan would have gone. It surely would have rolled through SE Asia, Burma (it already did), India, to the Middle East and its rich oil fields to meet up with the Nazis. Then would the English fortress of Egypt even matter? There's no telling. With the oil of middle east, resources of India and SE Asia, could Japan and German fought off the US? Very likely. Then the Russians would only be an afterthought with the two front war with Germany AND Japan.

3. In fact, Japan only fought in China to prepare for the inevitable conflict with Russia, which things got out of hand, and Japan did not count on a strong Chinese resistance at all. Also Russia was only able to fight off the Nazis because it had a non-aggression pact with Japan which the Japanese only accepted because they were stuck in China. This allowed the Russians to move all their factories to the East and maintained wartime production. After the dropping of the atomic bomb, the Russians quickly negated that treaty and proceeded to pillage and rape Manchuria, and also obtain its "civ"long goal of a non-freezing port in Port Arthur. The 7 days that Stalin "declared" war on Japan allowed it to pillage all of the resources that the Japanese had been piling up in Manchuria, which should have belonged to the Chinese. The 7 days that Stalin "invaded" Japan/China gave Russia back everything it had lost to Japan and China in the Qing dynasty and the Russo-Japanese War and more, including the Sakhlin islands, Kurillin Islands, Vladivostok, Manchurian railroads, etc. WW2 was the greatest boon for Russia, and the betrayal of China by its "allies" at Tehran and Yalta caused the rise of communist China with Russian support. With a Nationalist China, there would have been no Korean war, no Vietnam war, or would there even be the actual existance of the Comintern?

whew...

 

[Immortal]

That's debatable about whether it was a legitimate empire, I have always thought that when Barbarossa formed a new empire it was powerful and in many ways, legitimate.

 

[Zouave]

The Germans: developers of Zyklon-B poison gas, ovens for people, and extermination camps featuring lampshades made out of human skin.

The Germans.

 

[Reichsmarshal]

"Holy Roman empire wasn't that powerful.
After all they couldn't defeat the Seljuks in the Mid-East.
The Seljuk Turks were alot more powerful.
And then the Mongols came and after they left the Seljuks got even more powerful."

When Barbarossa ruled, the Holy Roman Empire was way way more powerful the the Seljuk Turk group. They didn't even totally control Asia Minor! Cologne was the most populated city on Europe at that point and the Holy Roman Empire was advancing rapidly.

Other than that though the post at the beggning of this thread was very pointless and error filled.

 

[Charlie Martel]

Blackdragon, you're a moron. That's all I have to say

 

[cegman]

Did anyone notice that Blackdragon didn't reply to any of this. I have a feeling he is trying to annoy us or take us for ride for his own sick pleasure of annoying people

 

[Hamlet]

Originally posted by Blackdragon
germany did not lost ww1 couse of superior allied forced but couse of a revolution by the german people.

I won't foucs on anything else, as I see it has already been covered extensively.

However this singular nugget of ignorance has apparently not.

This was, after WW1, a common myth in Germany. I am wholly surpirsed that it has lived on to this day, however.

Germany did not loose the war as a result of a revolution, a 'stab in the back' by socialist politicians or whatever you want to call it.

It was, after the disastorous Ludendorf offensive, quickly loosing the war. The offensive had been a gamble that had originally worked, however The Germans soon found themselves loosing ground after over-stretching themselves.

The military elite knew that Germany would eventually have to surrender. The influx of The Americans and the disaster of The Ludendorf offensive ensured that.

However, surprise surprise, they didn't want to take the blame. Hence, the new civilian government, which signed the armistice, had the Treaty of Versailles imposed upon it, etc etc, and subsequently took all the blame.

Also, the monarchy effectively collapsed after Wilhelm fled. Many people and politicans wanted to uphold it, but basically couldn't after Wilhelm did a runner.

The only revolution was a small scale leftist one to force the Kaiser to abdicate. However, it had nothing to do with the inevitability of Germany loosing the war.

Hope this has enlightened some of you.

 

[Richard III]

....and if the revolution was at fault, it happened because Allied blockades made the home front seem hopeless. It wasn't like the revolution happened out of thin air; it was a consequence of endless war and Allied military action.

 

[Cunobelin Of Hippo]

Moderator Action: Refer to the announcement. This is bulls*** Blackdragon might just be in line for a good long vacation.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889