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Supply wagons/trucks

Discussion in 'Civ - Ideas & Suggestions' started by baseballfan45, Apr 17, 2004.

  1. Lennon

    Lennon Automated Worker

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    But if you make abstract convoys, again the fun is flushed down the toilet. Part of the whole thing is actually steering your fleet around the ocean (like sub wolfpacks) and sinking cargo vessels. Desperately trying to find enemy cargo ships to sink, inflicting serious attrition on them in wartime. How much fun is a line over the ocean (there is no such thing anyway) where you just assign ships to either protect or attack? And how would the enemy be able to see this line anyway, it doesn't exactly run a long set of nav bouys across the seas where you just wait until an unsuspecting vessel goes by. I think supply trucks or caravans would add unnecessary micro management because on land we have roads. The ocean is a place to roam freely, now please let me do that instead of any abstraction you can't do much about.
     
  2. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Emperor

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    I made a topic on merchant vessels earlier. In my topic, they were mostly economic, but the same system would be used for supply. It is here.
     
  3. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    On logistics:

    1) Conventional military troops would require support to operate without penalty. The penalty for being unsupplied would be 1 hp a turn. Here is what counts as a supply source:
    a) Before Steam Power - Adjacent to non-hostile road or railroad.
    b) After Steam Power - Within 2 squares of a non-hostile road or railroad.
    c) Within 2 Squares of a settlement
    d) In the same square as a settler not in foreign territory.
    e) Supply Wagon Before Engineering - Supply wagons could be drafted from your population once Mathematics was discovered. The supply wagon is assumed to have the equivalent of 5 turns of supplies with them when supplied. If not supplied a turn is subtracted until it is disbanded. If they can be resupplied on a turn, they will recharge completely. These are special kinds of transports that land troops are loaded onto. They move at 1 MP a turn. Units can unload and still fight, but their effective supply radius is 1 tile for the units it was carrying.
    f) Supply Wagon After Enginnering - The big difference is if you have horses, your supply wagon moves at 2 MP and has 7 Turns of supply. Without Horses it is the same as e) but with 6 Turns supply.
    g) Supply Wagon After Motorized Transport - With Oil you get 3 MP and 10 Turns of supply. WIhtout Oil you get 2 MP and 7 Turns of supply.
    h) Outposts - If an outpost is supplied with supplies, it can provide logistical support for up to 3 squares.
    i) Air Resupply - Aircraft can drop off supplies on a specific tile. Supplies must be replenished every turn.
    j) Air Fields - Air fields count as supplied outposts, as long as the enemy doesn't have significant control of the skies around the airfield. If they do, you have to raise your own air presence.

    2) Non-conventional land forces
    a) Non-conventionl forces(should be more in Civ 4) would be assumed to have 10 turns of supplies.
    b) Any resupply resets that limit.

    3) Naval Forces
    a) Naval units now have an effect over an area of sea extending a certain number of tiles from the unit. This means they can effect other naval units or shipping in that radius.
    b) Naval trade routes would be the shortest/safest(in terms of navigation) path to another port. Any units whose control radius overlaps that route is consiered able to attack it. If there is a defender escourting that section of the trade route(patrolling), then there could be a battle, but it counts as a convoy.
    c) Non-steam/oil propelled ships - If they are within x turns of a port, they are supplied. Otherwise they have y turns to return to that range.
    d) Steam engine ships - Without coal they cannot be at ocean, stuck in port or recalled to port. Otherwise they are assumed to have the speed to resupply when they need to, so the operational range is unlimited.
    e) Oil based ships - wihtout oil they are stuck in port. The technology exists to refeul them at sea.

    4) Air Forces
    a) Aircraft require Oil to run. They cannot do anything without access to fuel. As long as one airport has fuel, it can transfer it to others.
    b) Dangerous airspace is that where you don't have an air presence. Those places cannot be resupplied by aircraft, although ground supply could still bring oil to aicraft.
    c) Helicopters can stay out of an airstrip for one turn. Basically long enough for exfiltration.
     
  4. ManOfMiracles

    ManOfMiracles Hogwarts Class of '86

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    How about a naval scouting unit early in the game? Would it be safe to assume the operator of a curragh (for example) lives on fish and seaweed while exploring?
     
  5. sir_schwick

    sir_schwick Archbishop of Towels

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    Good point. Maybe you could build scout variants of curraghs and galleys that were worse in combat.

    And a note on non-conventional troops. Most land troops would have some non-conventional troop type. These types have worse combat stats, but of course can operate for long periods of time without support. Good for deep penetration or resistance.
     
  6. CivEconomist

    CivEconomist Chieftain

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    I would love a naval explorer unit, probably would come too late in the game to be useful
     
  7. GoodGame

    GoodGame Red, White, & Blue, baby!

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    Supply lines would be a good idea, since unit support inherently needs them to work, and holding them is crucial to fighting a war.

    The simplest way is to stay connected by road, air, or harbor path, plus several squares of un-roaded plains. It'd also make exploration more realistic, since units couldn't travel the whole world so early.

    Once out of supply, a unit could continue a few grace turns, and then need resupply vs. losing hit points.

    Something like supply wagons/airdrop planes (C130s) could give limited protection against losing the hit points when out of supply.

    And PILLAGING would actually be meaningful for the unit's existance. An act of pillaging could act to resupply the unit.
    That'd be very realistic and not too complicated.
     
  8. perilisk

    perilisk Chieftain

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    I like the idea of operation range and abstract supply lines (militia units' operational range should be tied to their hometown, however). "Line" is a misnomer, however. I just think that there should be some number of movement points outside of a city, beyond which a unit cannot operate (or operates at a penalty). Forts should function as cities, but only if the fort itself is in range of a valid city (that is, they extend supply range, but cannot create supplies from scratch).

    Thus, movement-enhancing structures like roads and railroads would also allow military units to operate farther away from their home nations. Rough or impassable terrain would block movement. Squares containing an enemy unit would be considered impassible for the purposes of supply, so stationing troops on railroad tracks, even without destroying them, would severly cripple an enemy's forces if they were far from home.
     
  9. chef pablo

    chef pablo Warlord

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    here is my post on supplyhttp://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=169692.
    I have an additional thought, when I was in the service (11H thats infin,anti tank to all poges and civlian types)our basic job was to take cities and hold defensive lines to allow an advance.In essance we were the supply.
    why not make inf. the supply wagon not only responible for supply but extending territory durring war time.If your inf unit is in enemy territory and you can draw a direct path,uncontested to your civ than that terratory should be yours,allowing all restriction and defensive as well as offensive bonuses take affect.
    For naval, Im all for ranges but i think you should be able to build multiple ports to extend your range,matter of fact the range for one port should be small in both trade and supply,adding more ports would increase the range.This would create true port cities.
     
  10. yavoon

    yavoon King

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    I wouldn't find that fun at all. tedious would be my word.

    I think u should have abstract supply lines that aren't necessarily just connecting tiles, but a general route. and u could move a ship into the area and have a mission like "attack shipping" and it would start to impede the trade or supply along that route. and the closer say to ur enemies shore u did this the more effective it would become.
     
  11. chef pablo

    chef pablo Warlord

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    sometimes the solution to a problem stares us in the face and we dont see it.
    ive got the 12 year old boys solution,pick a groand unit for each age,warrior,maceman,musketman, rifleman,infintry,and so on tack on culture to that unit almost like a moving city.Use those units to push your border if your at peace with an opposing civ and have open borders using these units wont matter but if your not happy with the next door civ and like wise there not happy, than you use these units ,mass them at your borders to push the borders and as long as the AI does the same vioala you have your front.moving into their terrotory will push the border and soon enough theres your front and everyone is trying to look for weaknesses,flank etc.
    whatya think
     
  12. Mewtarthio

    Mewtarthio Emperor

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    Unfortunately, that allows for the exploit of pushing your border into a friendly civ to steal their tiles. Also, there's no bonus for fighting inside your own territory (unless you own the Great Wall in Warlords).
     
  13. chef pablo

    chef pablo Warlord

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    can you mod it so that you have fixed borders with a nation that you have open borders with,what i mean is that if you go into an open border agreement with another civ than the borders that you have, shoudnt change.As far as bonuses i think healing at a faster rate is enough of a bonus .the biggest thing is it will force the AI to come out and fight rather than stack units in cities.

    If you add culture to some type of naval unit it would give you the ability to blockade,very key in trade and military might.
     
  14. Caine13

    Caine13 Chieftain

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    Ohio
    I am a little late to this thread but I read this and thought of the perfest unit to do it. SEABEES!!! For those of you who don't know who he Seabees are they are construction battalions for the US Navy. They were formed in WWII and helped to clear islands in the Pacific and built runways to help with supplies. Now they build camps and hospitals for the US front lines. :goodjob:
     

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