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Supreme Court upholds assisted suicide law.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Little Raven, Jan 17, 2006.

  1. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    The "culture of life" seems to be nothing more than a fundraising scheme to me. Things would be better if they actually acted on those from time to time.

    What is true? And why would it be applied nationally?

    I don't know. To turn off the life support and withhold medications, that takes some effort. Turning off switches, removing tubes, etc. Seems active to me.
     
  2. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    What is true? I don't know. That's the problem. And when I think I have it, I can't convince you of it.

    And why would true doctrines regarding law be applied nationally? Well, what else can we apply? All law is applied because it is beleived to be true and correct.
    When I say 'passive,' I was imagining my grandfather.

    Indeed, going on life support and then deciding to go off is 'active' - but, as I said before, it'd be hard to legislate against that.
     
  3. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Then I suppose it's conflicts like these that lead to states taking it in their own hands, for or against. Unless there was a bill passed by Congress or even an amendment.

    Well, most of us see that kind of decision as well within the rights of the person or next of kin. I'm trying to see how this would be any different, once a person passes all the tests and requirements needed to ensure this isn't done on a whim.
     
  4. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    Indeed, that is what I'm hoping for.
    It wouldn't be all that different, except that one is nearly impossible to stop by legislation and one isn't.
     
  5. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    So why bring up morals when all this is would be hoping Congress does something to overturn it? If they're nearly the same, except that one is easier to define and legislate against, where is the moral line?
     
  6. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    Please note that I didn't equate suicide with a passive choice of death in all cases - just in the one you brought up, about actually ending life support.

    The moral line probably lies somewhere in these even more grey passive cases - such as refusing treatment entirely.
     
  7. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Well, if it's all increasingly gray...why not let the family (if there is one) and the patient sort it out for themselves? It includes a doctor and a counselor or whatever else needed, but the decision is mostly with the patient.
     
  8. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    I support letting people decide what is gray, but not what is black.
     
  9. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Black would be what exactly? Trying to ban all those life ending procedures outright?

    Well, wouldn't giving up on banning "flipping the switch" or giving a "Do Not Resuscitate" order to the doctors only because it would be hard to write into law be also immoral?
     
  10. nihilistic

    nihilistic Intergalatic Delivery Boy

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    How would one decide what is grey and what is black?

    More importantly, who gets to decide what is grey and what is black?
     
  11. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    No: Banning assisted suicide, to me, is the clearest moral position. From there, it gets complicated.
    Probably, yes. But I haven't fully made up my mind about where to draw the line, and I wouldn't want to advocate a position I am unsure of.
    Reason.
    People who know the truth.

    Rather than have this teased out over many elliptical posts, let's cut to the chase: Do you beleive there is such a thing as objective right and wrong? If you don't like those terms, do you beleive that all reasonable people will come up with similar answers to a problem? If you do not beleive in objective right and wrong, do you beleive that subjective right and wrong have any value? If you only beleive in subjective right and wrong, what is the basis for the law?
     
  12. The Yankee

    The Yankee The New Yawker Retired Moderator

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    Combined because I'll make the same point.

    If it gets complicated from there, why do you expect the Supreme Court to make the same decision? They're bound until the Congress does something because the real question at hand was whether Ashcroft should have waged his legal battle in Oregon or not.
     
  13. cgannon64

    cgannon64 BOB DYLAN'S ROCKIN OUT!

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    I know that this is truly Congress' area, but I most definitely agree with Scalia's angle: "If the term 'legitimate medical purpose' has any meaning, it surely excludes the prescription of drugs to produce death."
     
  14. nonconformist

    nonconformist Miserable

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    Well, as far as I'm concerned, until God actually comes down and tells us suicide is sinful, I will support a person's right to death.
    And if that damns them, so be it, I hardly thing they care.
     
  15. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I cannot believe in Objective Right and Wrong, because every action has a victim and benefitor; especially once you factor in opportunity cost and 'potential people'.

    But you ignored the brunt of my post. We agree that suffering = bad, and death = worse ... how can I not agree? I suffer to avoid death.

    However, death happens. We are not yet able to stop it, so we must deal with it when it becomes unavoidable.

    With the patient, you are forcing them to suffer to prevent their death. You are forcing a 'bad' to prevent a 'worse'. I can see the logic in that. EXCEPT:

    You are forcing more suffering on them, to prevent death, than you are willing to suffer yourself. I'm not saying you wouldn't want us to cut you down if you hung yourself, clearly you would - but that's a 'potential' incident, so it does not apply yet (if ever). I'm saying that, right now, in real time, you could be suffering more to prevent death (at a better cost/benefit ratio, in fact) than you're forcing the patients to do.

    Can you not see that your morals are causing suffering greater than which you're willing to endure - to prevent the beast called "death"? How can you possibly take the moral high ground with this group of people?
     

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