Surprise war?

Abaxial

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Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been subject to a declaration of war by an AI civ other than surprise war? I don't recall it myself.

It seems to be the intention of the game design that if you want to attack someone else, you denounce, wait ten turns, and then declare whatever casus belli you have, It seems that this almost never happens. The AI either denounces and then doesn't attack, or attacks without denouncing. While the player most likely doesn't need to denounce because the AI civ has already done the denouncing. Or the player declares surprise war to take advantage of some passing opportunity.

I hope some better system will be in place for Civ 7.
 

Noble Zarkon

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Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been subject to a declaration of war by an AI civ other than surprise war?
Yes, I mentioned it on here last month as I was so surprised that they declared a Formal War lol. Certainly doesn't happen very often.
 

Widdershins

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Out of curiosity, has anyone ever been subject to a declaration of war by an AI civ other than surprise war? I don't recall it myself.

It seems to be the intention of the game design that if you want to attack someone else, you denounce, wait ten turns, and then declare whatever casus belli you have, It seems that this almost never happens. The AI either denounces and then doesn't attack, or attacks without denouncing. While the player most likely doesn't need to denounce because the AI civ has already done the denouncing. Or the player declares surprise war to take advantage of some passing opportunity.

I hope some better system will be in place for Civ 7.

You only have to wait 5 turns after denouncing, not 10 turns.

Technically I think every joint war that two AI civs have ever declared on me were formal wars. When I want to declare a formal war without denouncing first, I look for a civ that's willing to do a joint war against my target. The other civ frequently agrees even though they are "friendly" with the target.

I do try to avoid springing a surprise war in the later eras. "To Arms!" is a handy dedication sometimes! In GS, though, without the "To Arms" dedication or any casus belli, I find a surprise war to be hardly worse than a formal war. For a formal war you have to denounce (25 grievances), then declare the formal war 5 turns later (100 grievances). So, formal war = 125 grievances, plus the enemy has 5 turns to prepare. A surprise war is 150 grievances, and of course one gets the element of surprise. So really, especially against a human opponent, I can't see how the AI can really do wrong by declaring a surprise war as opposed to the formal route.

A few games ago the Ottoman Empire formally declared war against me 7 turns after denouncing me. I had culture bombed one of its cities.
 

Planktonic

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I have often had formal wars declared against me, very often joint formal wars by multiple civs, incl civs far removed from me. It hasn't at all been a rare occurrence.
 

Aurelesk

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So, formal war = 125 grievances
Grievances decay with time. After the 5 turns, it is very likely you will have 0 remaining Grievances, so the Formal War would be 100 Grievances most of the time, and not 125. You don't need to be the one denouncing: you can be the recipient. Plus, you can declare a Formal War immediately after a broken Promise.

Using a Casus Belli reduces (reduced?) the War Weariness in the Classical and later era, so it is also something to consider. Here one fantastic work that explain it
 

vorlon_mi

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When the AI says, "Your troops are too close: A) Declare war B) Just passing through", and you say, "You were right to worry!" and declare war, what kind of war is that? Surprise or formal (if a denouncement occurred)?
 

Noble Zarkon

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When the AI says, "Your troops are too close: A) Declare war B) Just passing through", and you say, "You were right to worry!" and declare war, what kind of war is that? Surprise or formal (if a denouncement occurred)?
Surprise.
 

Abaxial

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I think if denouncing were removed from the game, it would do no harm. One could have instead an attitude one up from unfriendly - call it hostile. Perhaps one might incur grievances on a sliding scale - none for attacking a hostile civ, some for an unfriendly civ, more for a neutral, lots for a friendly one.
 

MartinMcMartin

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they always denounce me first, circle around my capital, and attack after 5 turns. this happens ALL the time. only sometimes they surprise attack me without denouncing me first.

so it is the opposite for me in my games! they do though denounce me a lot in general because other civs don't like me. maybe it's me stealing their builders and settlers.. 😗
 

Horizons

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So nobody has ever experienced AI declaring protectorate war, territorial expansion war etc? Sounds like CB is just another contrived mechanic that only impacts the human player.
 

mdl5000

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I can't remember the last war against me that wasn't a surprise war. I don't think the AI can think that far ahead: if they want war, they'll just do what's easiest and surprise you.
I do tend to play on Normal difficulty. Maybe different wars happen more often at higher levels.
 
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Sounds like you're very free with open borders.
When you declare war on someone you are automatically kicked out of their territory and so there is no disadvantage to giving open borders aside from scouting information, which I doubt the AI really uses. When the AI does that its actually a really good tell that they are going to attack you.

Maybe different wars happen more often at higher levels.
Doesn't happen to me and I play on Emperor. The pretty sure the AI only declares surprise wars from what I've seen.
 

Finvola

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I do get formal wars declared on me, usually they are joint wars but not always. I was playing a Vietnam game yesterday and for some bizarre reason Harald declared on me. I don't know if he actually denounced me first or if it was a surprise war. It came out of the blue. He had a weak military and was last in science, so it was a really idiotic thing for him to do. That, and I had allies. I was about in the middle science science-wise and had double his military strength when it happened. I haven't noticed other war dec types being called on me though. I take it the military emergencies are the liberation wars, but I haven't had territorial expansion or protectorate wars called on me. I don't often attack CSs though. I play on Deity.
 

Deadly Dog

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they always denounce me first, circle around my capital, and attack after 5 turns. this happens ALL the time. only sometimes they surprise attack me without denouncing me first.

so it is the opposite for me in my games! they do though denounce me a lot in general because other civs don't like me. maybe it's me stealing their builders and settlers.. 😗
Don't forget that if you are denounced, you gain Causus Belli for a formal war against the civ that denounced you, and you don't have to wait five turns for it.

Thus if you declare a formal war the turn you are denounced, you get 100 grievances but the other civ also gets 25 and they don't decay until you declare peace.
 

Abaxial

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This is why denouncing the player is usually a bad move - it makes you easier to declare war on. Really, you should only denounce if you intend war yourself.
 

MartinMcMartin

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LOL, I know that I don't have to wait 5 turns myself, so I just wait for the attack or I attack first. usually I actually hope the AI attacks me, because otherwise it is boring anyway...

so the more grievances against me the better. and the only way for me to win on deity is by waging war, and since I realy need their settlers and workers to get going, grievances are skyrocketing anyway, who cares about 100 more? an emergency against me? yes! always like some action..
 

Abaxial

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I'm not sure that the AI really takes grievances into account when declaring war. Denouncing, yes, but that is usually not followed by a DoW even if I would rather like it. I've not found a good way to provoke the AI into a DoW.
 

MartinMcMartin

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I'm not sure that the AI really takes grievances into account when declaring war. Denouncing, yes, but that is usually not followed by a DoW even if I would rather like it. I've not found a good way to provoke the AI into a DoW.
like I said before, provoke em by stealing settlers and workers. settle close, let your units hang around close to their cities. that will provoke them, does for me.

and it always helps to have a sh*tty army. less units means they attack quicker.. I think..
 
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