Survey: Starlife's Next NES

Excellent ideas, and I agree wholeheartedly. I think it would be silly to have everyone as a major lord of the land. I believe I will also do initial claims on an application basis.

Any ideas for other separations / player types, aside from dukes/lords?

I was thinking that our kingdom be centered on a major island chain, akin to the United Kingdom or Japan. A mainland sits not far off, and perhaps there are some viceroys controlling some smaller frontier territories on that mainland -- but otherwise, the mainland is controlled by other powers. However, I feel that trade with this larger land will be exactly what make some of the lords so powerful / wealthy in the first place (those "exotic" goods, and of course "handmaidens" :p). [think Westeros vs Essos, but I don't want this to be a GRRM rip-off fest]

How should economies be handled, other than simply (I want simple!). I like in NK NES, how NK labels trade routes so we know precisely where the backbone of empires is coming from. I'd like to do that, as well, and perhaps the value of trades fluctuates or something? I don't much care for each province = a certain amount, because I feel that such a system does not appropriately account for other sources of wealth. Comments? Suggestions?
 
Well, we are playing as Lord's not provinces right? Unless a Lord's property is the entirety of a province and everyone is a serf (which is a bit ridiculous), we should be focused on our own properties and personal treasuries, more than that of the province or state.
 
Well, we are playing as Lord's not provinces right? Unless a Lord's property is the entirety of a province and everyone is a serf (which is a bit ridiculous), we should be focused on our own properties and personal treasuries, more than that of the province or state.

Precisely. That's why I feel the "province = X amount" is not an adequate system. I think going into the sources of each lord's wealth is far more appropriate.

Yes, lords will have estates -- i.e., a castle, or perhaps even two -- and some of the surrounding peasants will look to that nearby estate for some degree of protection when things get hot. However, I did not plan on people having "borders" or anything like that (if that makes any sense). Rather, I want power to come from wealth and prestige. Not simply land.
 
I'd recommend taking a look at Nutranurse's Dread Kings of Ekra... Seems to have what you want.
 
I'd recommend taking a look at Nutranurse's Dread Kings of Ekra... Seems to have what you want.

No offense, but that is almost the complete opposite of what I want. "Cities" and "Towns" and "Castles" lumped into stereotypical, set-in-stone values -- that's like a board game, which I'm not interested in creating or modding. Way too complicated, and I never liked stat categories for things as abstract as "fear". Also not a fan of spending categories -- I feel those overlap all too often, and another category altogether might be desirable, if something one wants to spend money on doesn't fit in those.
 
Really would like I, II, and III, in that order, they look quite interesting. :)
 
Maybe a mix between 5 and 4? Not only does one control a noble household, there is a whole new world across the sea ripe for exploitation. Vie for the resources of the virgin world, fighting natives and your own country men, regretting sending the hedonistic black sheep of the family to control the family interests. All while making sure your daughter marries the heir apparent.

My favorite.
 
ImmacuNES IIb without high tech and symbiots (y)
 
There's an awful lot of spam tolerated here nowadays, I see.

Staying on-topic is always a good thing to do in a public forum. That is the lesson I bestow upon you now.

But since you brought it up: no, thanks, I would not like to run a NES that is entirely different from the NES I am proposing here. But keep dropping the names of unrelated stat-orgy NESes -- I assure you, it is extremely helpful, and adds a lot to our discussion here.
 
There's an awful lot of spam tolerated here nowadays, I see.

Staying on-topic is always a good thing to do in a public forum. That is the lesson I bestow upon you now.

But since you brought it up: no, thanks, I would not like to run a NES that is entirely different from the NES I am proposing here. But keep dropping the names of unrelated stat-orgy NESes -- I assure you, it is extremely helpful, and adds a lot to our discussion here.

I'm sorry I hoped it'd give you more ideas and a chance to see how others have done it. Will try to avoid doing it again.

How should economies be handled, other than simply (I want simple!). I like in NK NES, how NK labels trade routes so we know precisely where the backbone of empires is coming from. I'd like to do that, as well, and perhaps the value of trades fluctuates or something? I don't much care for each province = a certain amount, because I feel that such a system does not appropriately account for other sources of wealth. Comments? Suggestions?

NK has an awesome economic system, tho we don't see all the projects we have invested in, most players know what they have spent on - I don't think NK keeps a list about everything that players have invested in. However, he does know what culture is some certain area, how large is the population (in given areas) and what are the main trade resources/livehood in certain areas.
 
I'd like to offer a few tips:

Consider the mechanics of Crusader Kings II. Most of a lord's military potency will come from his vassals, but he also has a tax base with which to supplement these forces with mercenaries/condottieri. A lord ruling over a lot of urban areas will not have a dedicated levy military, rather he will rely on mercenaries. To be a truly feudal NES, the dichotomy between burgher lords and true feudal lords should be established.

There should be a wide power variance; a few extremely powerful lords should exist, but there should also be a number of much less powerful lords who nonetheless have strong alliances.

Don't be afraid to have culturally different regions. Areas dominated by city-states or even a powerful kingdom or empire are fine, because it's more interesting to not have everything be one generic medieval blob. Climate differences are also important. The climate determines much about the region; medieval Italy was intrinsically different from medieval Sweden due in part to factors of geography and climate. To give a fantasy example, you have Dorne and then you have Winterfell, and the Rhoynar are quite different from the Northmen.

The power of marriage alliances can't be ignored either. Who you marry literally determines what direction your fief will go in. Keeping track of heirs and their ages is necessary, and randomly killing them off is realistic. Succession crises are a fun thing to have occur.

Finally, make the geography extremely detailed and varied. For feudal states to be successful, geographic barriers discouraging the formation of large centralized states (major mountain ranges, forests, rivers, water formations) should be around. Try and abandon the 'one central island with a few protuberances' map strategy you've had in the past for something a little more creative.
 
How should economies be handled, other than simply (I want simple!). I like in NK NES, how NK labels trade routes so we know precisely where the backbone of empires is coming from. I'd like to do that, as well, and perhaps the value of trades fluctuates or something? I don't much care for each province = a certain amount, because I feel that such a system does not appropriately account for other sources of wealth. Comments? Suggestions?

It might be helpful to consider whether you are doing things backwards, rather than trying to come up with economic rules first, wouldn’t it be more effective to world-build first? In particular you need to consider what are the social mores (is trade looked down upon and thus not engaged in by the noble class; is usury frowned upon), technology (the balance between offense/defense and especially siege warfare would influence crown power, ship technology would govern how much and how cheaply goods could be moved), geography (proportion of urban to rural; value of agriculture and mining; access to rivers/oceans for cheaper trade), social institutions (how are cities connected to nobles/crown; are religious institutions consumers or producers as well; does the nobility draw its power from people, wealth, land, governmental roles), to name but a few. Depending on the world being built the rules can be tweaked to best fit it, especially in such a narrowly focused NES as is being proposed.


Edit: Which I suppose is another way to say what Thlayli is also saying.
 
Excellent additions to the thread, Thlayli and Strategos.

Pretty much everything Thlayli said is along the lines of what I was thinking (and have developed somewhat through discussion with bombshoo and others). There will be a few powerful lords, but dozens of minor families, who are nonetheless important via alliances (with many being the retainers of the larger households).

Don't be afraid to have culturally different regions. Areas dominated by city-states or even a powerful kingdom or empire are fine, because it's more interesting to not have everything be one generic medieval blob.

I like this comment, because it describes perfectly what I would like to avoid (the generic medieval blob). As I develop the world, I will post my notes here for review, and perhaps we can discuss this in more detail then.

Also: the "central island" maps I have had in the past certainly will not work here, solely because I want this NES to be more realistic and less "cartoonish", for lack of a better word.

Keep the insights coming, folks.
 
Hello again. I've been working on our NES quite a bit lately. Here are some new tidbits of information to savor or discuss or both:

Each player will control a family -- this much we know. The land is currently called Suenos, but that might very well change by the time the NES starts. Suenos can be described as a continent composed of two major "islands" (though these islands are more the size of Mexico and Arabia, respectively). To give a brief history of Suenos: it was occupied by a diminutive, nomadic native population for quite some time, most of them found in the thick wilderness of the central part of the continent. After a series of violent volcanic eruptions and earthquakes shook the northern section of the continent of Uedos (a continent north and east of Suenos), a bronze-working peoples called the Alyusians were forced to flee, led by a powerful chieftain who was under the advice and sway of the mysterious "nine philosophers" (all of whom, including the chieftain, would become important symbolic religious and political figures/icons). Lacking food, they essentially followed herds of animals out of Uedos and across a land bridge, to the considerably smaller continent Suenos. From there, you can pretty much guess that with the Alyusians' bronze weaponry and their knowledge of domestication, along with their sheer numbers (despite heavy losses in a lengthy migration period), they were able to adequately subjugate the native peoples of Suenos.

So begins the first part of the history of our land.

Suenos is essentially split into two parts: the western sphere (which is where the Alyusian landfall occurred) and the eastern sphere. Over centuries, the Alyusians established firm hegemony over the western sphere, and a variety of kingdoms and lesser states were hammered out from the fertile land. Due to Suenos' abundance of oceanic and fresh-water fish, the Alyusians became master seafarers and shipbuilders (of course, over time -- the migration itself took place ~4,000 years before the start of our NES).

The eastern sphere of Suenos was untouched for a time, though the channel between the two spheres is narrow, and it did not take long for the Alyusians to cross that strait and subjugate the small and primitive fishing villages dotting its coastline (of peoples related to the eastern sphere's natives, though different in some respects). The entire nature of Alyusian dominance was finally "threatened" (put in quotes because it actually only provided a minimal threat) by an extremely violent warrior culture of the eastern sphere's steppe (akin in climate and geography to, say, Turkey -- but you'll see how that is quite different). The Alyusians were more established as a civilization, despite their fragmentation into various kingdoms, and the "main" kingdom (more on this later) eventually defeated those indigenous peoples after a series of bloody wars. And so, the Alyusians spread also to the eastern sphere.

Fast forward a little bit -- the Alyusians discover Uedos (not the far north that is now a cold wasteland, but the coastal regions on the eastern side of that continent). Trade opens with far-off, exotic lands (all this only a few centuries before we begin).

And, all of those kingdoms of varying power and wealth have since conquered each other, married into each other, or otherwise. Perhaps the most "unifying" event was that of the first Executor, who I will talk about more later.

-> There is the Emperor, who claims lineage from the man who led the Alyusians from Uedos. He acts more as the Pope than a true head of state. However, he appoints guardians, regents, the Executor, and others. His power is well-respected, and he is considered an important religious figure. Like thousands of years ago, there are still "nine philosophers", who are essentially eunuch sages who guide the Emperor -- appointed due to their exceptional "insights" (though often their appointments are a struggle within themselves). Imagine a mix between cardinals and advisers. I'm thinking they are appointed for life.

-> There is the Executor, who is head of state, appointed by the Emperor.

-> There are 6 or 7 major families, the most powerful, who are usually also the most pureblood Alyusians. It is important to note that most within the Empire are of mixed blood -- it is extremely rare to be pureblood Alyusian. The most "muddied" blood occurs near the central wilderness of the west-sphere, or the steppes of the east-sphere -- they are called "pioneers" in a derogatory sense. The majority of the populace is of mixed blood, though predominately Alyusian (for a time, interbreeding was encouraged, as it cemented a series of truces with the natives, especially those of the steppe -- but the most stubborn families eventually became the most highly regarded through their strict policies).

-> There are dozens of minor families, either retainers of the major ones or independent in their own right, though not powerful or wealthy enough to hold major sway (though, perhaps, capable of disturbing the balance with a host of allies or otherwise).

-> Noble families can trace their lineage back to the migration, and this creates an almost religious sway over elements of the populace.

-> There is a growing merchant class, trading exotic goods from the various polities of Uedos. Of course, I'll need to elaborate.

-> There are a variety of religious customs, the most dominant being the revering of the original chieftain as a god figure (thus, the Emperor is a god of sorts). Additionally, some indigenous customs from both the western and eastern spheres have contributed to a mythos of the land, in which the most exceptional natural barriers or sites are regarded as holy (though human sacrifice and general druidic practices have been phased out). Some of the peoples of the steppe likewise adopted some of the gods of the warrior natives as saints, and have added them to their traditions, sometimes going so far as to believing in eleven philosophers instead of nine. And, in just the last 500-600 years, a religion from Uedos has been imported to Suenos, one which advocates enlightenment and "one path" (more on this later).

-> There were several kingdoms throughout Suenos, all descended from Alyusians, but most have merged under the banner of the Emperor and Executor, figures who came about a few centuries after the initial migrations, but did not gain as much power until a few hundred years ago. More on this later.

-> So, I reiterate, players will control families in such a setting. There is no single goal or even a single setting drive, though of course the land is teetering on civil war, as it often is, due to some scheming here and there and the goals of ambitious lords. Only 6, maybe 7 players will be major lords. The rest will be minor, but that can very well be more interesting any way. There are lesser families that are becoming more wealthy, trade guilds, and even mercenary groups.

-> "Magic" is all but dead. This will be a low fantasy NES. What fantasy there is, I am keeping vague and mysterious (for your benefit).

-> However, I am thinking it would be interesting for the capital city of Suenos, the most important city, to host a sort of bound "spirit", which assists in economic dealings somehow (perhaps originally bound thousands of years ago by the first emperor and the oracles). This spirit would not do anything cool and amazing like kill all foes or anything. Rather, something simple but extremely beneficial, such as magic which makes silkworm cocoons produced in the vicinity have extremely soft sericin, so as to make silk production easier and more convenient in that city, or something similar. Still thinking on this, and might not include it at all. :)

There is more, but let's relax on this for a while.

-----

All of that said, I have a few questions for all of you. I think it is best to make a cohesive and consistent world here, so I don't want to willy-nilly accept all families you submit and put them into an unorganized, nonsensical hodgepodge. Therefore, how should I go about this? I don't want to eliminate your hand altogether from the creation process. So perhaps I take proposals, and filter through them, edit them, and mesh them into a unified world, or something along those lines?
 
I like it, with the exception that eunuchs can't have a bloodline. :p Moreover, I'd willingly work within the bounds of your world and with you to craft a major family. I think you should select your major house players very carefully.
 
I like it, with the exception that eunuchs can't have a bloodline. :p Moreover, I'd willingly work within the bounds of your world and with you to craft a major family. I think you should select your major house players very carefully.

Haha! I just threw the "originated from the blood" of the first ones -- sort of as a last-minute addition. Besides, I think it better if they are appointed, not hereditary. Anyway, edited.

I'm willing to hear any and all requests for a major house position at this point, though details should be kept to a minimum until I get everything ready.
 
I'd be interested in a Major House Position, If you are willing to give one to me. (I can't write anything more, right now, as I'm not at home.)
 
I want to hold off for now on the main drive for major houses, lest this thread be consumed by "gimme gimme gimme". :p I simply want to know who is interested in what at this point, and who is even playing, before I put in more effort and time.
 
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