[GS] Sweden Discussion Thread

[Red_warning]

In the Renaissance, a little extra weight, prominent aquiline noses, prominent brows, beauty marks, and pale skin were considered attractive; most of these things are not exactly the typical Western standard of beauty now. (I still think most of them are attractive, but I'm weird and a living anachronism.)

Yes, I've noticed surprisingly similar noses showing up on many older paintings, and I suspect some amount of exaggeration has been done by the painters.

 

[Zaarin]

Yes, I've noticed surprisingly similar noses showing up on many older paintings, and I suspect some amount of exaggeration has been done by the painters.

When someone is paying you handsomely to paint their portrait, you paint them how they think they look.

 

[CivLuvah]

If she were alive nowadays, there is a chance she might have been trans, but that is not something we can actually comment on today with any real confidence.

Or intersex, since you mentioned the possibility of her being a hermaphrodite.

 

[DWilson]

Or intersex, since you mentioned the possibility of her being a hermaphrodite.

Agreed. I think this is also quite possible, albeit with that caveat that as far as we know this would not have been represented in her genitals, which were phenotypically normal female, IIRC.

 

[ferretbacon]

We were able to eke some screenshots out of that video. Like Lautaro. It wasn't a total loss.

Sure. But if they'd just continued First Look videos instead, we'd have gotten the official Mapuche reveal earlier. I'd prefer they use the next three weeks to reveal the Ottomans, Phoenicia, and Eleanor, then use that last week for whatever miscellany they can cook up.

The Queen's Bibliotheque is as close to a unique wonder as we've seen, if you think about it. Can only be built once and it has stats that I could imagine on a wonder.

 

[KayAU]

So, I rewatched the video, and have concluded, that, yes, I do like Sweden. My thoughts:

• Focus is on culture, diplomacy and great people. These are all things I like.
• The big downside to Sweden, is that they don't get much for the early game. You will get some diplomatic favor when you earn great people, but I doubt that is going to be all that powerful.
• Since early advantage is so important, I doubt Sweden will be among the more powerful civs.
• The mid-to-late-game culture game should be really, really strong, though.
• Two unique infrastructures!
• The Queen's Bibliotheque looks wonderful. It's not going to be hard to fill it up, and it provides an excellent amount of culture and tourism once you do.
• I also really like the Open-air Museum. By the time it unlocks, you will probably have settled at least 3 terrain types, which would give a very good yield of +6 culture +6 tourism. Getting to a full +10/+10 should not be too difficult either.
• Sweden reinforces my wish that cultural influence had more positive side effects, like it did in Civ 5.
• Extra Great Person points are always very welcome.
• The Nobel Prize is a great ability, not because it makes Sweden powerful, but because of what it contributes to the game. I think this is the first time we've seen an ability which applies to all civs in the game when Sweden is included. I love this idea, and it's thematically very suitable.
• The Carolean looks quite good, and I really like the idea of trading strength for movement. That said, I don't think it will contribute much to Sweden's power overall though, as it arrives a bit late, and unless rebalanced in GS, the anti-cavalry line is not very good.

Given this civ's focus, I really look forward to this week's livestream.

 

[bbbt]

Their multiple victory condition path. In single player they strike me as exceptional, frankly, at either domination, science, or culture. Rationale: Early game domination is relatively easy, so no bonuses are of no matter. When those GP points, auto-theming, and unique improvement kick in they should blast off to a T3 govt, etc...faster than the rest of the board can cope with it.
​

I'm not quite sure what your standard is. The whole game is relatively easy, so by that standard no bonuses matter. If it's "fast", last I read in the strategies forums some folks were basically getting 100t culture victories primarily with great books and relics (and lots and lots of chopping of course), where most of her bonuses won't matter (chopping out an earlier wonder with for great works would be about it at that point).

She gets zero bonuses to getting any extra GP for great works until mid-game with her t2 building.
Someone like Greece - with half priced theater squares and a bonus to getting a religion with the wildcard spot - would have a significant leg up. And with LUAs that help them speed through the civics tree before her UI comes online.
Russia will still be able to snag a lot more GP first, if not be able to place them.
Lauruto can spam his Chemulll with the right city placement in the ancient era.
Korea might be in space before Sweden has built her T2 building, etc

 

[HorseshoeHermit]

Boring civ.

Has Carolean.

I'll take it.

 

[pgm123]

Boring civ.

Has Carolean.

I'll take it.

What makes you say it's boring?

 

[Weraptor]

Speaking about Carolean, it' an awesome unit, but I really hope they'll change its unit icon before the release, it looks quite weird.

 

[Human Crouton]

Why isn't the open air museum a building? It has no adjacency bonuses, and making it a building would already limit it to once per city.

 

[DemonMaster]

Why isn't the open air museum a building? It has no adjacency bonuses, and making it a building would already limit it to once per city.

Because an open air museum is a large area with several buildings, not one single building.

 

[Human Crouton]

Because an open air museum is a large area with several buildings, not one single building.

Why isn't it a building for gameplay reasons?

 

[Lord Lakely]

I would also note Kristina was generally described, often positively, as having masculine features. Some postulated she either actually was male, or was hermaphroditic. After her death, her corpse was checked to verify her gender, and no evidence exists to say she wasn't a sex typical female.

This also has to do with the mindset of the time. People had a hard time believing that a woman was just as capable of intellect and refinement as a man was. Whether she's lesbian or trans, we won't know for certain (although there is enough circumstantial evidence to posit that she was probably LGBT in some capacity), but the comparisons to men and masculine traits were further amplified institutionalized sexism.

 

[Alexadamz]

Yeah, I just noticed that.

If they didn't change his Agenda or its name, it makes us think about their similarities in real history. Both Pedro and Kristina were rulers of their countries, both royalty. Both were fond of art and science, of learning in general. Both thought of ruling as a burden. Kristina abdicated. Pedro ruled almost until his death and suffered a coup. I guess if Pedro wasn't a male ruler he might have had the same fate as Kristina perhaps. Or maybe Kristina's burden as a ruler would be lighter if she was male - not male looking tomboy. But that is off topic.

 

[UWHabs]

Why isn't it a building for gameplay reasons?

Because they like to put big fancy things on the map.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

If they didn't change his Agenda or its name, it makes us think about their similarities in real history. Both Pedro and Kristina were rulers of their countries, both royalty. Both were fond of art and science, of learning in general. Both thought of ruling as a burden. Kristina abdicated. Pedro ruled almost until his death and suffered a coup. I guess if Pedro wasn't a male ruler he might have had the same fate as Kristina perhaps. Or maybe if Kristina burden as a ruler would be lighter if she was male - not male looking tomboy. But that is off topic.

I asked if Pedro's had changed, but received no response.

 

[Alexadamz]

Because they like to put big fancy things on the map.

That is indeed a thing for Civ 6. But it think they went too far already. Now the map is becoming really crowded and it just doesn't feel aesthetically good. I know they want to play the map, but it is just weird. It is ok to have a couple basic improvements in the land and to sprawl cities unstacking the buildings from the main tile towards the districts tiles. Even the Wonders on the map is ok. Too much UI is weird, for gameplay, as many of them could just be UBs, and even because in real life and world that is not how things look like.

 

[Julia97]

I find it... lets say funny? ... that the first female leder is revealed, and people latch onto her appearence, saying she is not attractive enough or what ever... Like wtf

Edit: Btw I really like this civ! Not first civ I'll play, but at least the third I think! Good Job!

 

[Red_warning]

This also has to do with the mindset of the time. People had a hard time believing that a woman was just as capable of intellect and refinement as a man was. Whether she's lesbian or trans, we won't know for certain (although there is enough circumstantial evidence to posit that she was probably LGBT in some capacity), but the comparisons to men and masculine traits were further amplified institutionalized sexism.

I've done some reading on Kristina after I learned that she would represent Sweden. She was deeply in love with cardinal Decio Azzolino, I'll quote a letter from her to him: "[your vows] does not prevent me from loving you until death, and since piety relieves you from being my lover, then I relieve you from being my servant, for I shall live and die as your slave".