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[GS] Sweden Livestream Discussion Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by bite, Jan 16, 2019.

  1. Tobizi

    Tobizi Chieftain

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    That was very irritating for me as well. I don't even get, why Eastern Orthodoxy won.
    Didn't they say, in case of ties, the person who put the highest % of their Diplomatic Favour wins!? So as Kupe and Harald have not much favor left (53+17=70) their amount was higher than the amount of Laurier and Peter (favor left 36+36=72), because their input was 10 favor each.
    Maybe there was a kind of invisible addition for Protestantism, i.e. 2 votes for outcome A minus 3 votes for outcome B!?
    The more I think about it the more I'm confused...
     
  2. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I think it works best this way, as you need to take into account what the other players will vote. While the implementation is a little strange, you have to think it as two rounds of voting:

    - First the world congress asks which direction this resolution should go (A or B). Everyone votes A or B. If you voted the losing proposition, you are not allowed to participate in the next round.
    - The second round asks which should be the target of the resolution.

    They made the UI so that you do it all in a single action, which makes it a bit strange, but the 2 voting rounds system is perfect.
     
    Josephias likes this.
  3. OmegaDestroyer

    OmegaDestroyer Prince

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    It will be interesting to get hit with the "no border growth" resolution. It sounds like a wonderful invitation to take my neighbor's land.
     
    George Abitbol likes this.
  4. Ituralde

    Ituralde Warlord

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    Don't get me wrong. I like the 2 voting rounds as well.

    I would have preferred it though, if you could vote in the second round every time.

    Also their terminology with "PASSED" and "FAILED" makes no sense when there's two rounds. I hope they can get the UI a bit more clear/cohesive. But juding from the UI in Civ VI in general, I am not very hopeful.
     
    Sagax likes this.
  5. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    I think another issue is that you're probably not building a t2 Holy Site building unless you're going for a religion and planning on spreading it. But Norway isn't exactly a religious victory civ.
     
    George Abitbol likes this.
  6. Josephias

    Josephias King

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    Yes, the UI (specifically WC) is messy as hell.

    Nevertheless, just to add the reminder you will be refunded your vote cost if you don’t go to the second round (that is, if instead of A, B wins or vice-versa), and 50% if your outcome also does not is the final one for the second round.

    Also, i think the first vote was free, wasn’t it? This coud solve the Eastern Ortodox controversy, as for both sides the effort made is 0%
     
  7. Ziad

    Ziad Emperor

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    Faith and Religion are severely underrated around here. The former can be used as a currency for many things, and the latter can be designed to supplement your gameplay. Given Norway's inclination towards warfare, Faith/Religion can pretty much be used to both support that strategy or complement your more civil pursuits.

    The meta is really shifting in GS, so people should start looking into how things may play out differently, including the value of yields and districts. Examples are the new pillaging system, the Encampment supply chain, removal of chopping multipliers, and sea trade route bonuses.
     
  8. pgm123

    pgm123 Emperor

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    I do find it counter-intuitive. I didn't even understand it until you explained it. That said, I think the system is fine once you're used to it. Calculating the vote refunds will matter. I think Ed said you get a full refund if you vote for B and A wins, but a half refund if you vote for A and A wins, but a different target.

    I think it's best to think of it as a two-tiered vote (these exist in some referendums). It wouldn't make any sense to pick the end result based on a tiny minority (the three votes in your example). Instead it asks "Do you like A or B?" If A wins, what would you pick? If B wins, what would you pick?
     
  9. Uberfrog

    Uberfrog Deity

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    I can see why they want to make it so each round of the World Congress is decisive, but the World Religion and Mercenary Company motions suffer from having too many variables to vote for. You choose not only to act for or against a particular religion, but also which religion. You choose not only to increase or decrease the cost of military units, but also which currency to affect.

    I feel this is going to lead to many unsatisfying and confusing outcomes.
     
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  10. Ituralde

    Ituralde Warlord

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    That's how I understood the Eastern Orthodoxy thing as well. Everybody used their free votes, so nobody invested Favour, so there was no tie-breaker. The game then decided it through random luck, would be my best guess.

    Luck will be a major factor in getting the otucomes you desire here as well. You have to hope that agendas push the AI to declare openly whether they're leaning towards Outcome A or B. Then you can select a Target from that category, which suits you. Then you have to learn the hard way, whether the AIs tend to go for Outcome A or B in general. I fear that in you first playthrough you will lock yourself out of the second round, because you chose the wrong Outcome. Ed Beach said, that there is no way to get hints how the AI will vote before you cast your own vote, so you're stuck at guessing.

    I can understand why they chose to refund your Favour, otherwise the World Congress would become very frustrating very fast.
     
  11. Denkt

    Denkt Reader

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    Holy site buildings are very cheap compared to the buildings of other districts, yes you do not get great people Points but in terms of cost for what they give they are very decent and also some religions may make them even stronger.

    Faith is also quite useful for Culture due to stuff such as national parks and can also be used for stuff such as purchasing units.
     
  12. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I think it gave it to the civs with more favor in store.
     
  13. bbbt

    bbbt Emperor

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    It does seem like it should be two different rounds. I understand they don't want nominate and then vote on since they always want something to succeed. But maybe top 2 vote getters (which options go to the floor for a vote!) on every resolution (i.e. with the target included), refund everyone who didn't vote on one of those two, and then final vote between those two for each resolution? Given that it's immediate and between turns it could have several rounds that then have an affect the next turn.
     
  14. Alexadamz

    Alexadamz Warlord

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    I don't like Norway that much because I am a more peaceful player, but even if I were warmonger I wanted more than what we have now for them - what will be somewhat more underwhelming with Maori in game. As Norway is the Viking era civ this time, I wanted it to have a historically related ability with them and an unique gameplay for it. Their embarked units, or only the Longship UU, could be able to use floodplains as canals, allowing them to go inland and pillage there, like the vikings did in real life. It would be harder to adjust mechanics to make Norway his rivers as paths, as rivers are just borders between 2 or more tiles, but as we are getting canals I guess they could make an easy adjustment to make Norway UU able to cross lowland tiles, floodable areas, for the purpose of reflecting their river raids.
     
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  15. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    I thought they said that tiebreakers go to the civ that spent a larger portion of their favor to vote the way they did. So for example, my crummy civ that spent five out of my seven favor points on something would beat a tiebreaker who invested five favor but has a ton to spare.
     
  16. UWHabs

    UWHabs Deity

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    Yeah, it will take some getting used to. But I agree with the above point mentioned - if you absolutely want to stay away from "A-Protestantism", your best vote is to pour a lot of favour into "A-anything else" unless if you think you have enough to swing things completely.
     
  17. Trav'ling Canuck

    Trav'ling Canuck Deity

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    As I suggested earlier, it's a guessing game. It's possible a couple of votes added to B could keep any A from happening. On the other hand, if most of the AI are going to vote for A, then you need to have more votes than any other civ to avoid the sub-A you want.

    It'll really come into play when the votes for Diplomatic Victory Points come up. What are the AI going to do? Will they all vote to add a point to themselves? If so, you can safely vote for yourself and throw as many favours as you can in the hopes that you win. Or are they going to vote to subtract a point from someone? In which case you better vote B and throw your votes into making sure someone else loses the point, not you.

    It would be less of a guessing game if you received more information about what the AI is likely to do based on your diplomatic visibility. To be fair, then, the AI would have to vote after the player and get the same information based on it's diplomatic visibility. More challenging, the AI would have to be able to figure out what to do with this information. Plus there's a circle there: player sees that Cleopatra is going to vote A, Cleopatra sees the player voted B so changes her vote, etc.

    Bottom line is the more information you get, the more the congress is tilted in the player's favour. The less information you get, the more it will feel like throwing darts.
     
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  18. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Hmm, this seems to me a bit like Cultural Victory Screen in its original state. I hope they hammer some more things out before release.
     
  19. Disgustipated

    Disgustipated Deity

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    I worry about this as well. Perhaps the congress effects should apply to all religions. I can see games on huge maps with many religions your vote getting drowned out. What you vote is almost meaningless then. I don't see an easy solution to this.
     
  20. Potworny

    Potworny Chieftain

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    'Wow, I've never had Pachacuti with the Enviromentalist agenda, every time I play against him he's like:

    I LIKE... TREES...

    CHOPPED UP INTO LITTLE PIECES AND BURNING AT MY FURNACES"

    Definitely a highlight. Pete's doing great.
     
    Meluhhan, Zaarin, Our_DeCay and 5 others like this.

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