Sweden

[picnicboy]

Honestly I think Skåne, Halland og Blekinge should be Danish in Civ, as this is not just a game about the last 350 years.

I guess there's a minor conflict here.
Scania, Blekinge and Halland were acquired by Harald Bluetooth and remained Danish for centuries. For one thing, most cities were founded by the Danes, thus we have a good case for why they should be included in the list of Danish cities.

On the other hand, the Sweden civ seems to be largely based on the historical era of the Swedish Empire, starting with the 30 Years War and moving on to the caroleans etc; a period when it acquired all of it's modern possessions, as well as a bunch of other territories which it eventually would lose. I think that many of the important Swedish cities of this era will be included in it's list, including perhaps Reval (Tallinn), Stralsund, and maybe even Riga and Stettin, as well as of course Scanian towns.

But, I do lean towards agreeing with you here. Scania, Blekinge and Halland were part of Denmark during the Middle Ages, and cities like Malmö, Lund, Helsingborg and Halmstad should be in the list of Danish cities. Anyone who wants to re-enact history in his/her game should play Sweden and conquer these over.
An exception though, would be Karlskrona in Blekinge, which was founded by Sweden in 1680 and would become it's most important naval base.

 

[Uberfrog]

But, I do lean towards agreeing with you here. Scania, Blekinge and Halland were part of Denmark during the Middle Ages, and cities like Malmö, Lund, Helsingborg and Halmstad should be in the list of Danish cities. Anyone who wants to re-enact history in his/her game should play Sweden and conquer these over.
An exception though, would be Karlskrona in Blekinge, which was founded by Sweden in 1680 and would become it's most important naval base.

Since we already have Constantinople and Istanbul in the game, there needn't be a problem of overlap, especially if there are different names in Swedish and Danish.

Malmo is Sweden's third largest city, after all, and it would be a little odd not to have it on the list.

 

[Kimuyama]

The names aren't different, other than Swedish having Ö and Ä where Denmark'd have Ø and Æ. I support both civs having cities from Skåneland, especially since it constituted pretty much half of Denmark proper before the Swedish conquest and that it is where Swedish culture fades into Danish.

 

[Sotof]

Skåneland is an area of that gives a bit of conflict, true. So would Estonia be (since it was also Danish at one point), but hey I think Skåneland is a bit more significant (As Estonia sorta juggled rulers). As a Dane I would naturally say that the cities significant to Denmark before the loss of Skåneland should be Danish, but I would not mind the ø - ö thing that much. Even if it looks odd.

 

[Wezqu]

[*]Helsinki (capital of finland, though not a very important city during the Swedish Empire, the Finnish administration was carried out from Åbo (Turku in Finnish and English))

Thats little harsh when it was protected by one of the biggest sea fortresses in Kingdom of Sweden. They would have not build that fortress if the city was not important. Still I agree that it was not a big city until after the russians took over.

 

[theguy8882]

I'm pretty interested in the Swedish. I like babylon which has the great scientist bonus so and I assume nobel prize has something to do with great people, so they might be my choice.

 

[ShahJahanII]

I'm pretty interested in the Swedish. I like babylon which has the great scientist bonus so and I assume nobel prize has something to do with great people, so they might be my choice.

We know exactly what the Nobel Prize does:
90% influence from gifting great people to city states and a 10% boost to great people production when you form a declaration of friendship.

 

[Louis XXIV]

90 influence, not 90%, iirc.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

My guess at Swedish UA:
+25 production of great engineer,great artist

 

[Liex]

My guess at Swedish UA:
+25 production of great engineer,great artist

We know exactly what the Nobel Prize does:
90 influence from gifting great people to city states and a 10% boost to great people production when you form a declaration of friendship.

Check out at http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pOKHm0nslHI#t=706s

 

[Sadar]

Reading thru proposed city-list one is constantly wondering why the city of Viipuri (Viborg / Vyborg) has been listed as a Danish city.

It was established by Swedish crusade against Novgorod and its history has been almost totally swedish/finnish.
It was lost to Russia in war at 1710, regained to Great Duchy of Finland at 1812 after Russia had conquest the country and dissected it from Sweden.
Viipuri remained a Finnish city until WWII, when it was annexed by Russia.

As a Finnish city, Viipuri was the second oldest city in Finland and before WWII it was also second largest city in Finland.

I would like to see Viipuri removed from Danish city-list and included in it's proper historical context as a city of Sweden (or Sweden-Finland as we like to think )

 

[anandus]

I'm not sure if this has already been mentioned, but this (the bold bit) is new to me:

Special Abilities
Bonus influence with a great person gift to a city-state. When declaring friendship, Sweden and their friend both gain a bonus to great person generation.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

Yes, it pays to DoF with Sweden.

 

[Sotof]

Reading thru proposed city-list one is constantly wondering why the city of Viipuri (Viborg / Vyborg) has been listed as a Danish city.

It was established by Swedish crusade against Novgorod and its history has been almost totally swedish/finnish.
It was lost to Russia in war at 1710, regained to Great Duchy of Finland at 1812 after Russia had conquest the country and dissected it from Sweden.
Viipuri remained a Finnish city until WWII, when it was annexed by Russia.

As a Finnish city, Viipuri was the second oldest city in Finland and before WWII it was also second largest city in Finland.

I would like to see Viipuri removed from Danish city-list and included in it's proper historical context as a city of Sweden (or Sweden-Finland as we like to think )

Viborg is also a Danish city in Jutland which is why it is in the Danish city-roster.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viborg,_Denmark

 

[Sadar]

Ok, my bad...

Sorry, Danes.

 

[Heinage]

Do you think it stacks so that if Sweden have 10 Friends, they have 100% bonus to GP birthrate? That would be kinda cool.

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I have 2 small problems with the Swedish UA:

1) Gaining the GP generation bonus requires you to play nice with the other civs. The problem is that they don't always want to play nice. Sometimes they hate you for reasons beyond your control. They frequently switch alignments unpredictably. I know there are improvements to diplomacy coming up, but it's pretty tedious to keep up friendships with your neighbors. Also, DoF'd civs beg and bleed your coffers dry. If you say no, they hate you. It annoys me to have a UA that depends on the AI to work.

2) You gain extra influence gifting GP to city-states. That's a really high opportunity cost. Those GP are better spent elsewhere. The only ones I'd be inclined to give away are Artists and excess Generals, and that's only because it seems that they don't make Golden Ages anymore. Unless you stockpile GP's to gift to city-states right before a UN vote, I don't see this as being a frequently used ability.

 

[ShahJahanII]

90 influence, not 90%, iirc.

Typo, thanks.

I wonder how useful that will be. I mean, would you really be willing to give Great People away? Then again, influence will also be harder to earn, making it potentially more valuable.

 

[MisterSaturnine]

I have 2 small problems with the Swedish UA:

1) Gaining the GP generation bonus requires you to play nice with the other civs. The problem is that they don't always want to play nice. Sometimes they hate you for reasons beyond your control. They frequently switch alignments unpredictably. I know there are improvements to diplomacy coming up, but it's pretty tedious to keep up friendships with your neighbors. Also, DoF'd civs beg and bleed your coffers dry. If you say no, they hate you. It annoys me to have a UA that depends on the AI to work.

2) You gain extra influence gifting GP to city-states. That's a really high opportunity cost. Those GP are better spent elsewhere. The only ones I'd be inclined to give away are Artists and excess Generals, and that's only because it seems that they don't make Golden Ages anymore. Unless you stockpile GP's to gift to city-states right before a UN vote, I don't see this as being a frequently used ability.

1) The AI is improving to essentially form blocs throughout the game - religious blocs before the Renaissance, and political blocs after the in the Industrial era. We know that Vanilla AI switch alignments unpredictably, but from what we've heard regarding AI changes, it seems to me that AI relationships will be somewhat more stable, and that one will be able to cultivate friendship based on common beliefs as well as common interest. I imagine Sweden will be quite able to wage war with its religious and political allies against its religious and political enemies without being judged a warmonger by its allies.

2) It's a steep opportunity cost in the early game, but GP become progressively less useful in the late game. Judging by the ability's name - Nobel Prize - I imagine it wasn't intended to be frequently used before the Industrial Era, when one would be using GP as opposed to giving them away. This is especially true if the GS has indeed been rebalanced, as the tech boost they offer becomes less significant in more advanced eras. Furthermore, one shouldn't overlook the bonus to producing GP Sweden and its allies get with this ability. If you're really opposed to more or less converting a Great Person to a more diplomatic Great Merchant without the gold, just keep your great people and use the other part of the ability to stockpile a whole bunch with your friends.

 

[HeraldtheGreat]

Thanks for clarifying Liex
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