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Switzerland vs the world

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by really, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. Camikaze

    Camikaze Administrator Administrator

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    The bit where one is a supranational organization and the other is a federal state, apparently. Despite stressing the importance of spillover in the integration process, even neofunctionalism doesn't suggest market liberalisation is a deliberate federalising project. The word 'union' does not automatically connote something more than deep multilateral ties.

    I don't understand what you're trying to get at. Do xenophobic people exist in Europe? Yes. Has there been an element of xenophobia in the Swiss vote? I imagine so. But the four freedoms are about a whole lot much more than that, and Europe failing to go full speed ahead towards complete federalisation isn't indicative of anything in that vein.
     
  2. gangleri2001

    gangleri2001 Garbage day!!!

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    Now the EU is threating Switzerland. Those "democrats" and their concept of "democracy" can't stand the result of a referendum. How democratic is that?

    In such occasions I always like to enjoy this old masterpiece of an answer given by Mr. Farage.


    Link to video.
     
  3. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    My opinion is quite simple and it really has little to do with "xenophobic people" other than some of the proponents of eliminating virtually all so-called "immigration", or at least highly restrict it from specific countries. I thought I had already made that quite clear. I guess not...

    Once again, the EU has decided that people from member countries should be able to freely move between these countries well over a decade ago now. I think this is an admirable goal and is even necessary for the EU to call itself a "union". Of course YMMV.
     
  4. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    As I stated the EU is composed of 28 countries, the USA is only one. Why should you compare movement between different countries with internal movement between the German or US states, the countries that make up the UK etc. The members of the EU are separate countries and as such it is not surprising that they act as such.

    It is upto the member countries of the EU to decide the name. If you do not like the name it is upto you.


    So NAFTA allows far fewer cross border movement than the EU. :lol:
     
  5. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Because it is quite clear that is what the intent is with the EU promoting exactly the same thing for well over a decade now? :crazyeye:

    But, again, you are free to disagree with my own personal opinion, as well as apparently many other Europeans who agree with me. And you can do so using whatever rationalization you desire, despite being seemingly reluctant to mention them.

    Well, yes, no restrictions is indeed less restrictive than some. :rotfl:
     
  6. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    Sorry you have lost me.:confused:
     
  7. warpus

    warpus In pork I trust

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    Not that I agree (or disagree) with the threats, but a democracy is usually not just "tyranny of the majority". At times the will of the majority has to be overruled. This happens in most (all?) modern democracies to some extent.
     
  8. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    The EU decided to adopt the very same policy apparently for the very same reasons. That having "immigration" restrictions between member nations would be just as silly as having them between different states, particularly when such restrictions are directed towards only some countries.
     
  9. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    So you think the USA is silly:eek:
     
  10. bugwar

    bugwar Emperor

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    Oh.
    OK.

    If they agree with you, they are being progressive.
    If they don't, then the 'will of the majority has to be overruled.'
    Adolf, Joseph, and Mao all concur with your view.
     
  11. Tahuti

    Tahuti Writing Deity

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    It is really mind boggling how some take democracy as "more than 50% is free from any moral constraints". This is NOT what democracy is about. Democracy doesn't mean the majority rule, but the people who rule. It is far more democratic to have 70% of the people agree on something than just 51%. Some policies arguably should be agreeable to 90% of the population rather than a simple majority and migration is definitely one of those areas.
     
  12. Akka

    Akka Moody old mage.

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    I do agree overall with your concept of democracy, but I really don't see why immigration would be a special case that would require a huge majority.
     
  13. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    Trolls like this certainly are.
     
  14. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    You mean like overwhelmingly supporting the invasion and occupation of a sovereign country on the basis of lies and deceit?

    Spoiler :


    Or how about the cases where the public overwhelmingly supporting laws which later turned out to be ruled unconstitutional?
     
  15. uppi

    uppi Deity

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    Yes. Granted, if there was a vote about limiting the free movement of Romanians/Bulgarians/other recent additions, the there would be some countries with similar results. However the vote in Switzerland seemed to be mainly about Germans, French, Italians, and other citizens of core EU nations. Immigration of those people has become so normal and accepted that I doubt you could win a vote on this anywhere else in the EU, except for maybe England (who many say should be kicked out, anyway)

    And Europeans are surprised that the Swiss have such an extreme definition of "foreigner". A Swiss would not be considered a foreigner a Germany (the difference between a southwest German and a Swiss is much smaller than the differences between Germans themselves. So Germans are surprised the Swiss consider them such a menace.
     
  16. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    The article in the OP pointed out that most Swiss of French heritage are against the quotas, Germans are mixed, and the Italians support them.

    Interestingly, the French Swiss were also mostly opposed to banning minarets.
     
  17. bugwar

    bugwar Emperor

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    From the article:

    Switzerland is not a member of the 28-member union, but in line with agreements with Brussels, it has followed E.U. policies promoting free movement of people and jobs.
    Following Sunday’s referendum, its government now has until 2018 to reimpose strict quotas on immigration from E.U. countries.
    ...
    Nigel Farage, leader of Britain’s U.K Independence Party (UKIP). “Were the British people to be given their own referendum on this issue then the result would be the same – but by a landslide.”
    Farage noted that the Swiss will be able to set their own immigration rules because their country is not a member of the E.U.
    ...
    In countries like Britain critics warned that a predicted influx from the poorer eastern European nations would reduce job opportunities for locals and put pressure on public services.
    An opinion poll by Ipsos MORI late last week found that 62 percent of Britons are “dissatisfied” with their government’s handling of immigration and asylum issues, including 34 percent who are “very dissatisfied.”
    ...
    Meanwhile the Swiss vote was also hailed by two more of Europe’s most prominent euroskeptic parties, France’s National Front (FN) under Marine le Pen and Geert Wilders’ Party for Freedom (PVV) in the Netherlands.
    Wilders on his Twitter feed called the result “fantastic,” and said, “What the Swiss can do, we can do too: cut immigration and leave the E.U.”
    ...
    A recent poll in France indicated that the FN could secure 23 percent of the vote in the European Parliament elections, beating France’s major center-right (21 percent) and socialist (18 percent) parties.
    Analysts predict at least 18 seats for the FN alone, making that 25-seat threshold a realistic goal.


    Source: http://cnsnews.com/news/article/patrick-goodenough/euroskeptics-welcome-swiss-vote-curb-immigration
     
  18. Silurian

    Silurian Deity

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    :goodjob:



    So you think the USA is silly
     
  19. Borachio

    Borachio Way past lunacy

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    I thought Switzerland was formed as foil for feudalism. And that all the fight-hungry knights would periodically get sent there to be slaughtered by the Canton..er..Cantonese.

    Well, that's what Barbara Tuchman told me, anyway.

    And. And haven't you forgotten the Romansh speakers in Switzerland?
     
  20. Formaldehyde

    Formaldehyde Both Fair And Balanced

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    It doesn't matter how many times you repeat the same utter nonsense. It is still utter nonsense.
     

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